Why does dive not counter Ashe (according to the forums)

General Discussion
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So according to the forums, dive heroes are not a counter to Ashe. Though why is that? Since I think dive can still counter her.

In my opinion, coach gun is not an invincibility button. Which seems to be the main reason why dive does not counter her. There is also dynamite but that can be baited. (I think?)

Also if dive does not counter Ashe does that mean it does not counter Widow too? She does have a grabble.

So do you think dive counters Ashe or not really? Let me know what you think. Just trying to understand the reasoning.

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widow dive doesnt counter, ashe a lot less so as it can be atleast half denied but their escape abilities make it incredibly hard for lower rated players to dive them

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So dive is not a counter to Widow as well?

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not really, her escape is too good

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i think single 1v1 dive against Ashe doesn’t counter
her shotgun blast backward skill does a very good job at pushing away divers, especially Winston, who becomes useless if he isn’t within a short range to land his primary fire electrocution. then she just throws dynamite and clicks, and it’s game over. not to mention her unscoped shots being faster and thus dealing more damage over a short time, and it is in many cases more accurate

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It doesn’t help that Ashe usually has a pocket in high rank.

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Which is the problem with this argument “Dive” isn’t a singular character. Even if we’re going with the mentality of 1vs1 many dive characters do in fact counter Ashe. The flankers in particular, Wrecking ball and Dva are major threats to Ashe. Its just Winston really that can be easily fought off 1vs1.

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I don’t find Ball much of a solo threat unless your team just completely hangs you out to dry.

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yeah maybe in an ideal world diving an Ashe with your teammates works. maybe if you have teamwork and voicechat and reliable teammates

but that’s not always the case, especially not for me since i solo queue 99% of the time

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This is a team game. It’s not balanced around you and your teammates being bad players or having no communication. Furthermore you can take down Ashe on a variety of characters solo if she is also solo. It’s just that Winston isn’t one of them. 1vs1 basically every character with an escape or knockback can frustrate Winston’s attempts.

Ashe isn’t taking down a similarly skilled Wrecking ball 1vs1 just by nature of his healthpool and adaptive shielding, even all the way down in gold.

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Players don’t like to communicate. Dive Ashe with Dva first with DM to eat coach and then Winston. Tell each other when to go in. Callouts and planning wins games.

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Dive heroes can counter snipers in 1v1s.

Dive compositions are not counter to sniper compositions in 6v6s.

That just it.

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There’s also this long range boop she has that also moves herself away.

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In theory it should counter her, but coach gun & Dynamite are a pretty op tool to both gain distance on them and put some heavy damage.

I really think snipers (all 3) shouldn’t have any escape tool from divers… sure they can get to high ground but using their positioning ability for escaping just counters dive too well and for no reason…

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Well they could just give them all 175hp.

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It will not solve the problem really…
The snipers can escape before the divers reach.
You make it a bit riskier but it’s not a solution considering the problem lies more on their grapple and coach gun.

They can really easily just make it so grapple takes longer to shoot and use in order to make it only a positioning tool and not an escape tool, that would also encourage more team play for Widow.
And for Ashe personally I think they can just give a bit longer recovery time for dynamite in order to make sure she doesn’t instantly blow it up but has a bit of time before she can.

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Is the third sniper Ana?

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For some reason everything that can’t be killed right on the spot is hated by diving/flankers mains that i noticed

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Mercy pocket is just really annoying to play against, you need a good Winston to lead the way

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It isn’t that dive doesn’t counter Ashe. It’s that it takes a lot more coordination to dive the Ashe than it takes red team to pocket the Ashe.

Diving an Ashe is a two-part process. First you put somebody on her to bait coach gun. Winston, most likely, though D.va or Ball can work too. Then your flankers have to immediately get on her while she has no mobility. If your timing and coordination is off you are screwed.

Meanwhile, all red team Mercy has to do is push one button.

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