My question to those who want ladder reset(MMR /SR reset) . How do you expect MMR reset to help your case?
I think its generaly bad decision, prove me wrong with some good arguments.
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How do you expect MMR reset to help your case?
MMR reset obviously will vaccinate earth population from COVID, make golds T500, and me richer.
But I do think paid stat reset should exist, so players dont duplicate accounts. Let say, $50 for stat reset, while you retain all your useless skins.
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i’ve wanted it ever since role queue became a thing. role queue changed the game, so in my personal opinion, i think that warrants at least one reset.
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I don’t want one but I wouldn’t hate it if they reset it every season as long as they lasted one year like in league.
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For OW2 because with release of that amount of new maps and heroes the mode already will be chaotic enough.
Because gold too is chaotic with the low level requirement. Set it to level 100 and reset MMR.
To stop Unranked to GM challenges for a while.
The Gold ranked bug at the start of the Role Que was NOT an MMR reset. It was the matchmaker forcing everyone to start from the same SR
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But only once per account, or once per like 10 seasons. And I would like to see option to merge all accounts into one.
But role q changed the games seasons ago, with new reset, players would have to place again on all roles. All players starting at 2350 SR first placement. Even top ranked players. It will be mess, dont you think?
This is probably only solid reason for reset, if there will be several new heroes maps and a lot of new players. Well maybe not good reason but probably best time to do it.
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Its off topic but i want seasons to be named about the current year and the number of the season that year. Looking at OW2 starting at Season 40 or whatever just looks silly to me.
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it would only be once so people would move to their respective places after. since the game did change i think this is reasonable.
But this logic doesnt make much sense sorry. If you reset MMR of gm, he will be far from where he belong for example.
If current ladder has 50% players placed where they dont belong, they are slowly going to ranks where they do belong.
If you reset MMR you will have a lot more than 50% being placed wrong and after placement SR grants huge swings to both ways so it will take a lot more time to place players to where they do belong vs current situation.
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but this is how it was when the game first came out and people still found their way to GM fairly quickly. a re set doesn’t change your skill so the system, if working properly, will place them where they belonged.
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Yes but ladder was forming for months and there were several big changes to how ranks were distributed. Not sure what do you mean by finding way to gm quickly. Now its possible because players reset only their account. Well reset I mean buy new one but they starts in already established ranks. If all accounts would be reset, thats completely different story and climbing to higher ranks will be very difficult and time consuming as all players will be compressed into one elo and games will have players from all elos, making win/loss often very unpredictable. And many top players could be stuck in plat for a while. It will take a lot of time to redistribute players.
If you talked about GMs in past when ladder started, it was completely different situation as we all badicly didnt know game well and were new to it. Season 2 GM player is not what is GM player now.
Did you see how competitive FFA season one was forming? It was good example in much smaller scale. And high ranks were forming pretty slowly.
well this was my only reason for wanting a re-set but i see it wasn’t a good enough reason. good luck with your search
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Honestly it’s better to abolish MMR. It serves no purpose other than to rigg games. If you’re ranking and scoring people on SR, use that to ship matches, and nothing else. Why do all kinds of analytics on players if it’s a simple and fair ladder?
There are dozens of “integrity” reasons for a reset. I’ve debated this to death. “Chaos” for like 5-6 games is a small price to pay. It’s only a few matches, before winners and pbsr over-performers are facing other winners/pbsr. It’s a great way to weed out who still wants to carry/climb, who is washed/parked, who is stuck, and which accounts are main vs. alts.
The only real downside are the content creators. They have cult followings, and if elo hell suddenly exists and applies to them, all their superfriends are gonna be up in arms, blaming the devs/game even more, because they don’t get all the math/logic behind a reset. Some will quit, meanwhile others will return because of the promise of fresh chances and new incentives.
It doesnt matter what is used to create games if some players are deluded and trust in rigging games. If blizz use only SR, same people start saying how is Blizzard rigging games with SR or how they are manipulating sr gain/loss to rigg games.
Reset will cause ladder with a lot less integrity for several seasons probably.
Are you crazy? 
6? It took me over 150 games to be where I belong with mercy on new account. Just one example. And keep in tmind it was in already established system with less chaos in ranks.
I dont think so, it would be great for content creators. Why do you think unranked to GMs are so popular? Because would love to see their favourite streamers to ve stuck in plat.
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Well it does. For the sake of simplicity and transparency. Forget the conspiracy theories (or actual evidence, patents, annecdotes)…
You still haven’t answered why we need MMR in the first place?
It serves no point or purpose other than to confuse and distrust. If you’re ranking and scoring on SR, use that to ship. The end.
That’s because of crap like mmr. If SR is a winrate indicator, an ability to (possibly cheese) wins, you can sieve a population of N=10,000 into 22 tiers within 13 matches. That’s a 227sr delta which is indistinguisable for most. 100 match convergence is for their regression analytics, learning what you play on what map, where/how you play it, your intent/session based output, etc. You only need that kind of data if you’re rigging.
Maybe. Sentiment analysis isn’t my forté. Systems integrity is.
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I already explained in in multiple different topic. I dont think we have to have it. But it would be much easier to manipulate matchmaker without it and using only SR will create a lot bigger swings in ranks. Means ng players who are moving up and down from their middle anchor place for example ±250 sr, will be moving ±500 SR.
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SR with a +/- pbsr component for win streaks or wins against large SR deltas (during sparsity). Larger pbsr to sieve the lower/middle ranks… No need for analysis and MMR unless you’re looking to handicap close matches.
If we’re going to do a reset, we need to do it right.
That means the data collection and forced rigging needs to go.
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You are right about that. So reset + 20 placement games outside of normal comp games with already ranked players and adding requirement of lvl 50 for entry to comp.
Btw data collection should probably stay or you will not know what is gm and what is gold play. You will have no comparison. I think even first season started with already collected data from qp or internal sources.
You are right about that. So reset + 20 placement games outside of normal comp games with already ranked players and adding requirement of lvl 50 for entry to comp.
Btw data collection should probably stay or you will not know what is gm and what is gold play. You will have no comparison. I think even first season started with already collected data from qp or internal sources.
Btw, what you will do with all modes outside of comp? They all use only MMR to balance games.
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Well that’s the thing. Is a GM someone who wins games or are they someone with all kinds of other skills, defined by accuracy %, apm, ult generation, wombo combos, etc? In some sense all the little things are supposed to map and convert into winning. Which is partly why a ladder based on no-reset winrates has lost touch with raw skill curve pdf.
You can avoid data collection (for the sake of matchmaking) by sieving winners/losers brackets - e.g. GM means only that you win against other winners, or have racked up the best win ratio (since reset).
For OW2 timelines, you could seed initial placements based on some kind of randomized encounter somewhat like an aim trainer workshop - where you have to land shots, listen to bot callouts, group, push, combo ults, etc.
And you really only need about 4-5 discrete pools for seeding someone’s approximate calibre (throwers and sloths all the way up to cheats/scripts).
Probably just a hidden SR that is slack/loose.
Note that when most of us are talking about MMR, we really mean KSR. mmr is a kind of chase mechanism typically used in calibration matches that projects where your sr deserves to be. In most ladders it is basically your pbsr or sr gains.
When people talk about rigging through hidden mmr they really mean KSR, or knapsacking rating, which is your expected contribution to the team. It’s the KSR that really rubs people the wrong way.
Something like that would be usefull for new players.
But dude players will then be saying that there is hidden SR in comp too what is rigging games, dont you think?
If you are placed as 1700 MMR player in match, you are expected to provide 1700 MMR game play. Even if team average MMR is lower or higher.that is your expected contribution.
Thats why is MMR more important than SR. SR is not your skill. Its visible rating which tend to be close to it but it is not that accurate.
Lets say you 2000 MMR player and your SR is too 2000 right? Your KSR is obviously 2000 too as you are expected to provide value as 2000 player.
Now we can agree that leaving games do not change your gaming skill right?
Ok, if you leave two games in current MMR system, MMR is not affected. It has no effect on your MMR. Only your SR is changed. So you will still be placed in games as 2000 MMR player.
If you would use only SR and remove MMR, leaving two games is - 100 SR. So you would be placed into games as 1900 player with KSR 1900. But thats wrong, your expected contributing should not be 1900 because your skill didnt change by leaving two games. Thats why system with SR without MMR would result in more unbalanced games.
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