Your major buff as tank is getting rid of one damage source which was an off-tank of enemy team.
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u asking for damage nerf for DPS?
while having ātankā to deal more damage while also have big hp and protection + utility
so u just want tank overpowered as hell and 1v2 dps in overwatch 2?
the reason why people dont play current ow1 tank because they are boring to play, not because they are weak
hammond is protecting their team by taking aggro of the enemy
there a reason hammond is considered main tank
he takes alot of enemy resource to stop him, thus making your team free from enemy fire
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i really do hope weāre not putting doomfist on the same spot as Ball and tracer.
You compare their offensive capabilities while one of those 3 heros keeps dying like constantly.
And its not Ball or tracerā¦
Hog could use his hook for mobility I guess I really am curious to see tanks are gonna be born again Iām excited
I want for long time now for everyone to get nerfed, but they already act like tanks do less dmg because there is one less tank in game and use it as excuse to buff dmg for tanks, so i ask where is going to be less dmg for tank to deal with to make them survive.
My perfect view is global dmg nerf to every hero at once, followed by healing nerfs to make it not to much to kill people, but better to be able to stay alive.
I even dislike rein hammer dmg he have now, and i certialy dont want his charge to be cancelable in OW2, and i played rein for long time. I want LESS dmg in game, in general, their way is to reduce one tank and buff others, that will not make less dmg fly in to anyone face.
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its allready hard enough to kill tank who getting healed by bap and ana
if u want damage nerf across all heroes, then tank health need also to be reduced to 300-400 (zarya 300, rein 400)
stop comparing overwatch tank to function as MMO tank
tank in these game are basicly DPS who can migate some damage
no one will play tank who has 1000 health but no threat / damage which are u purposing, this is fps game afterall
I dont play much mmo, i want fights in general to last longer because fights is what is fun, not walking back from spawn to fight.
General dmg nerf would help dps stay alive as well, and supports.
Rein was quite popular pick back in the day with 2000 hp barrier somehow, and he had less dmg.
Suprsing.
Fps does not mean - die in instant, and its not just normal fps, and not every game need to be the same just because you shoot guns in first person.
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I canāt help but feel thereās a massive misunderstanding with what Tank players wanted and what the Development Team is doing. This will be a bit of a long post, so sorry for that.
First off, tanks in OW are your engage. They are how you start the fight and why it feels like when they die first you canāt fight. But that doesnāt mean they are the heaviest impact role. Their impact is just felt first. After the fight starts, supports have heavy influence until the fight breaks down further, which then normally leaves DPS left to clean up or recover the fight. All 3 roles have their impacts and jobs in the fight.
Second, One of the things Tanks players like the most is the duo impact. Tank duos have a bunch of combos or synergies we enjoy pulling off with our partner, Halt combos with every ability, but things like halt/hook, pin/dva bomb, bubbling you rein/rein swings, dva matrix/winston jumps someone, etc. These synergy/duo plays are what Tank players enjoy the most about the role. Removing the biggest source of team play in your team shooter seems crazy. Tank players want more of this, and more synergy makes the game better. The 5v5 change is going to devolve the games into picks and kills instead of space and plays.
Third, Tank players donāt want to just become dmg characters. OW is a game that already has large amounts of damage. Supports and DPS already do crazy high dps and tanks hit hard too. By removing a tank, and then making all tanks do more dmg, less defense you might as well just have the game be 5 dps. Why not just make the game like CSGO. The defensiveness of tanks is what makes Overwatch, Overwatch.
Fourth, why make this change in the first place? People arenāt playing tank, right? And people donāt play cause itās not fun. But that happens because people play tanks LIKE dps already. The game never teaches people HOW to play tank. Everyone tries to play tanks to do dmg. Instead of playing to take space and then engage for your team. Youāre removing a core aspect of the game and changing it to fit the way people are playing, instead of teaching people to play the game the right way.
Fifth, What happens when you go through with a change that the current tank players donāt really want? All the tank players will either play a different role or stop playing the game. You are going to drive away the tank players. And for what, hoping dps players or returning players will pick up the role? With only one tank, the role is going to be either extremely under powered (With only one tank, focus fire on the target will be crazy strong and you are removing the defensive capabilities of the tank role too) or over powered so they can survive the team firing and damage coming their way. Even if you manage to make it work, the current tank players might not be the ones playing the role.
At the end of the day, this 5v5 change just makes me so sad for OW. Instead of fixing something that the community doesnāt full understand, the devs are choosing to just remove it from the game. If the game had advanced tutorials or a way to actually teach people to play the tank role, then it would be played more and you could do that without making it 5v5. All 5v5 is doing is removing the purpose of the tanks in ow, making them bulky dps, causing the most teamwork oriented role to become a solo role, and driving away the players. This isnāt what tank players wanted and doesnāt feel like the tank community or top tank players were even consulted on this change. I canāt even explain how disappointed this change makes me. And is the biggest reason I donāt think Iām going to play OW2, despite playing OW since itās release.
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One Mcree shot and do that from much further away with less risk.
Doesnāt detract that Zarya does tons of damage, and can act as a 3rd DPS at max charge. DVA can also shut most damage out with DM and continue damaging others, often winning most 1 v 1 unless she severely misplay it.
Thatās the thing though, her damage is situational. It effects tanks for more than it does dps, since they can often play outside of her rnage unless itās like genji
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So what I gathered and have feared from the very start that Tanks will still have to try and protect their team, but they will now be one player short, aka they will have to perform frontlining and peeling for the backline at the same time, otherwise enemy dps win.
I foresee a lot of tank players quitting the game in OW2 when they figure out that no, they canāt protect their team from 2 different directions at once and whomever has the better and smarter dps who spread out to take attack angles will always win. Because now thereās only just one of tanks and thereās still 2 enemy dps players to contend with. Just like the blue post commented, flanking will be far more powerful strategy now. So youāll just employ a tracer on your team 24/7 and then a frontline dps and enemy tanks will be in trouble trying to combat and peel against both, lest they just want enemy snipers to snipe for free or tracer to roam around the back killing supports for free.
No, trying to make the dps players beat the other dps players on their own, because you got your hands full as tank now, isnāt a solution, itās just going to make relying on your own teammates a far worse experience.
Leaving your teammates to their own devices so you can go brawl as a tank will end up your teammates dying behind your back, so that isnāt going to be fun either.
We arenāt just going to be able to stop caring about our less tankier teammates because we kinda have to, but at the same time OW2 direction will compress far too much duties onto a singular tank player to perform optimally. But nobody is able to be in two different places at the same time, no matter how you look at it, no matter how much a singular tank is actually buffed. For that, we needed 2 different players.
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Iād like to mention that developers testing and the live environment is much different. Unless you guys are playing with randoms every single game, the amount of teamwork you guys would share in an office environment is basically non-existent in the majority of ladder. I do hope you guys are taking that into consideration.
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You would say that, but statistically looking at average DPS outputs for different heroes would disagree.
But sure, letās go on the premise that tanks and DPS are equal portions of the damage.
Each tank does 20%
Each DPS does 20%
Each support might do 10%
That adds up to 100. So youāre still only cutting 20% of the damage.
Are heroās being considered for alternate roles? Doomfist in particular with his hit box, higher than average health pool, and reliance on CC suggest he fits more a brawler style. Alternatively if heās to fit in the dps category Iād assume he would need his CC reduced to fit what we know of OW2.
Can you comment on if youāve seen him tested as a solo tank or even a tank in any iteration of his character?
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This. They should really, really consider inviting select GM/top 500 players with no affiliation with OWL to playtest it on the downlow. I would vouch for someone like Harbleu, Stevoo, Seagull and MAYBE XQC (he would need to exercise discretion) for starters. Make sure it is being playtested by players who mastered the game, but their teamwork is similar to the ladder environment since theyāre strangers.
He already said it. The other people need to deal with it too. People need to stop playing passively and be active. That means tanks need to stop being shieldbots and dps and healers need to stop sitting behind a shieldbot. Use cover, move. Removing 1 tank already reduces damage a lot as tanks average just slightly less damage than dps.
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Finally some actual authentic communication about OW2 development. Thank you, this is really nice stuff to read. Iāve been waiting months for a scrap of insight into OW2 development.
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I wouldnāt limit it to GM/Top 500. It might be best to do an Alpha with random samples from each individual ranks. It can be on a new client with no new heros, no new maps or game modes. Just the updated engine and 5v5 changes.
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