People have been point out some “cons” of the system and making them a huge deal but I think that a lot of those players also forget the problems of our current system.
1. Longer queue times for dps players.
Yes it will definitely jump from 1-2 minutes in low ranks (where most of the players are) to let’s say 4-5 minutes in the worst situation possible but is 1 minute queue time with a big chance to get in a game where either no one picks supp/ tank or someone is forced to do it but he isn’t that good so you lose anyway worth it?
2. "Less variety"
“Oh well we will lose comps like 5 dps, 4 dps, 3 dps, triple tank, goats” well the question is, are you really gonna miss them? Do you find solo supp or tanking enjoyable? Or for the dps players, do you really want comps like GOATS or triple tank in your games?
“Well the pros are playing triple dps” they are also playing goats and are really effective with it. Are low elo players playing it having 100% winrate and a perfect communication (because with goats it’s required)?
3. Not being able to flex
Yes, it’s true that you won’t be able to flex with role queue. So if you really need to switch to a different hero that you can’t play but someone else on your team can you are pretty screwed. That’s a problem especially for high elo players where meta and counter picking is really important.
In order to fix this they can make a system where you can request to switch roles with someone else and if he agrees to your request, you are gonna switch roles. Maybe it’s only at the beginning of every round so teams have time to do it? Switching a lot during the round anyway isnt a good idea because you lose a lot of ult charge.
So this is my opinion: even tho role queue has it’s own faults, there are way more things that it fixes in comp like randomness and forcing someone to play a role they can’t.
It’s really similar to removing hero stacking and having the same hero in one team. “Removes a little bit diversity” but raises the quality of the games.
This is fundamentally flawed as it’s rare that everyone dies at the same time so there would always be these weird delays that would waste way to much time (if the request is even excepted)
Then you have the issue of to many people switching at once 1/3 of the team to be exact. A single hero swap doesn’t drastically change how a team can play 2gether but 2 def can.
Your asking for more coordination in an area that is already lacking that.
I would lose a ton of games if I couldn’t swap to hard counter the enemy or at least make it so we actually get picks.
Ever play Rein where everyone seems to be allergic to your barrier and you just end up getting run over by the enemy? Yeah it’s pointless to tank at that point so I will often swap to a dps that is most effective vs the enemy team comp. At least then I wont be an Ult battery with no dps output.
Well, I’m starting to wonder if a Role system would work at all in Quickplay, because of the excess of DPS picks.
As for Comp though, RoleQueue would work fine.
(Although, as always, 2AnyHere-2Tank-2Heal would be preferable).
That said, maybe QuickPlay could have some for of DraftPick, like what Apex has. Although I’m not sure how to deal with the leavers in that situation. (Or if the leavers issue would be big enough to worry about).
Or we would need a proof of concept in Comp, before QuickPlay players really have that strong want for RoleQueue.
Okay, I stopped reading after you claimed we would deal with an extra minute of queue, even Mr. PR stated queue times would jump 15-30 minutes on average. That range is a bit larger, I think it was 16 -28. I do not recall. Either way, it does not matter. Thirty minute queue times for Overwatch is unacceptable and they understand that which is why their goal is to “change player behavior” which really means more appealing tanks and supports. I imagine a lot of reworks will happen between then and now. So this is not coming anytime soon. Do not hold your breath.
You’re right that this (or something like it) would address a lot of what I dislike about enforced roles. However, it will almost certainly not happen, because Jeff sez that role queue is going to involve separate SR’s per role.
except it’s more likely to jump 20 minutes. That’s what happened to other games with a dps role queue. Such as WoW and they added a experimental type one for Dota 2. It sucks.
Didn’t League try one where you could pick 2 Roles, and if you played a round of your second-pick, you were almost guaranteed to get your first-pick next game?
Doing that would bump up the supply of Healer/Tank picks, by a lot.
It also just forces 2/2/2 which is also a problem past the queue times. Also supply and demand still apply. Even if your primary pick is dps it’ll have to find you a game where second half allows for a dps, so nothing changes. The queue time is still wrong if one of your two chosen roles is dps.
Isn’t that just “don’t play dps” is what you’re saying? You’re assuming enough dps players will just give up that demand and supply both go down. That’s not a solution. I’m not even joking I would probably quit Overwatch if that’s the way the devs try to handle things. That’s what EA did for Battlefront V (“Don’t play it” that type of thing). If we’re just told “don’t play dps,” it’s just as bad.
I’m saying giving the otherwise-DPS player the option to play AnyHero they want. Is better than just limiting them to DPS only. 80-90% of the time they will just play DPS. But the other 10-20% you will get some more inventive team compositions.
I predict the % will be the other way around. Supply and demand still apply, the supply of dps is high and the demand of other roles is high, it’s going to dump a large amount of dps players into the other roles very often. It’s RNG whether you’ll get the 10% dps chance.
the biggest problem is it a 3 role 6v6 game which means comps that evenly allocate (hedge) their resources will alway have an advantage over other comps.
that is why you get 222 or 33 dominating.
it’s because other ‘off meta’’ comps are gambling on performing extraordinary in one area, where as the balanced comp only needs to perform average.
for example lets look at a 4dps 1 healer 1 tank comp vs a 222 comp
say a teamfight win condition is kill the healers
the 4 dps supported by 1 healer need to get thorugh 2 tanks and take out the enemies 2 healers
but the balanced comps 2 dps supported by 2 healers only need to go through 1 tank to take out 1 healer.
so one team has 1 healer to 1 dps ratio and the other team has 1 healer to 4 dps ratio. if all players are equally skilled the 2 dps with a healer pocket each are in a much better position than 4 dps being supported by just 1 healer. you would either need the 4 dps to perform extraordinary or the 1 healer to perform extraordinary, just to overcome the 222 comps even distribution of resources advantage and make the match equal.
tl;dr even and balanced comps like 222 or 33 (in goats meta) will always have an advantage. so the game would be best to either force 222 or make the game 5v5 where you cant have comps that evenly hedge their resources and create an advantage.
Well if we are looking at Overbuff for Competitive only, there’s actually more Tanks and Healers per role, than there are DPS picks. Which isn’t 100% accurate, but close enough to be useful.
So the only problem is Quickplay.
And maybe they don’t change Quickplay, for now atleast, and only implement RoleQueue into Comp.
It’ll likely take a relatively high amount of development time to return a result that may be better or worse for people depending on the individuals preferences. Many of role queues functions could currently be produced using LFG and a bit of effort yet people aren’t to my knowledge using it for that in any significant numbers.
If 2-2-2 is so awesome that the entire game should be forced on to it then those that like it should be able to pop LFG groups for it with some regularity to show it off.
I came to Overwatch from TF2 because the matchmaking for the entire game was changed to add a new competitive mode. The changes killed most of the games Community Servers and left Valve servers partially populated and frequently on a smaller number of maps.
As a result, I’m not into pushes to significantly change matchmaking for a this might be better when it’ll take months to make. Developers tend to be very restive to backing down so, if it doesn’t work it’s unlikely they’ll take it back.
TLDR: Things can virtually always get worse. Making massive changes that will take lots of time on a gamble isn’t necessarily a good call. If 2-2-2 is so great, start popping LFG to show it.
What % of that is people wanting to be role x vs feeling they have to be role x or they will lose SR?
And additional problem is there are many hero’s who are perfectly balanced as is but do not fit well into a 2-2-2 comp.
Mei for example is techincally in the damage slot. However, she plays as a off tank/dps hybrid. If you run her in a 2-2-2 then you are going to be lower on damage. Even with her good crowd control and sustain there is typically just not enough damage for her to warrant taking one of two precious dps slots.
Which means hero’s who find their niche in non 2-2-2’s will either fall even further by the wayside or reworked away from what they are despite being balanced.
I am pretty sure I have already explained this to you before. Players SETTLE on 2-2-2. The matches rarely start that way. Most of the time I just see 4 people rushing to insta-lock and the other 2 more or less swap after the fact. If you remove the peer pressure element and only force the wait time, a ton of “tanks and supports” are going to queue for DPS.
![:slight_smile:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")