Zen also has predictable movement and a large crit box compared to some other heroes (at least it feels larger). Unless done behind a shield, Zen can easily die doing this.
I do agree with you, just saying there is a very big risk tho.
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Right so you just gotta outplay that widow. Flanking zen confirmed meta 2018.
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A better question. And Iām going to apologize in advance if this is blunt.
Why are you playing support if you want to DPS?
Time and time again on these forums thereās support players upset that they canāt 1v1 the Tracer or the Genji or the Winston-- youāre not supposed to.
Iām not trying to be rude I swear Iām not, but I am really exasperated here.
Why are you a healer if you want to kill and counter things? Why are you deliberately playing a role that intentionally lacks DPS then getting upset when you dont have enough DPS to kill actual DPS?
Why is it that when DPS complain about supportās being too strong its āHeaVEN FORBID A HEALER DEFENDS THEMSELVES!!ā but then when DPS are doing their jobs support players scream that they canāt do anything to stop them.
Why? What part of this role makes you think you should be able to reliably challenge anyone in a duel you have no business being in in the first place?
Nobody else does this. Nobody else constantly asks for more and more tools to be an all-in-one. You already have Brigettte. You already have someone who can sustain herself, who has a animation-cancel combo that can delete every 200hp in the game and harrass tanks; who counters dive [by herself!!] and makes flankerās jobs 10xās harder.
You know. The people who are actually supposed to counter you.
Now you want a hero that counters snipers too? Iā¦
ā¦what?
Why do you think there should be a healer combination that makes an entire class of DPS completely ineffective? You cant run dive. Now you dont want anyone to be able to run snipers either.
What CAN we run?
Who is āallowedā to kill you?
Who? What heroes are acceptable to you?
Iām a tired Genji main. All on these forums for months I had people trash talknā me for playing him, always support players, assuming I want supports to be healbots and this and that and every time I participated in a discussion its ālol genji main nothin to see hereā with every contribution I made acting like I stabbed someone
Even in threads specifically asking āwhy do you hate Brigette [example!]ā people get insanely hyper-defensive and jump down my throat for actually answering OPās question. I dont take it personally. I forgive. I move on.
But then threads like this pop up and some of you have the actual living audacity to sit behind a computer screen and talk about how entitled DPS mains are; yet youāre wanting to completely invalidate YET ANOTHER entire class of heroes?
Please tell me why. I really, really want to understand this.
Okay so before I answer your question, go grab a beer, because you sound like youād benefit from one (as would I ![:wink:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=5" ":wink:")
). Also letās leave Brig out of this, because I think you and I both agree she is overpowered.
I donāt like that you are accusing me of calling DPS mains entitled and that I am trying to invalidate an entire class of heroes. If this is what you think this thread is about, then I either worded it poorly or you misunderstood my intentions.
I believe that every class should have at least one option they can switch to in order to provide some decent counterplay to what the enemy is running. Currently, the meta is double sniper. Support heroes get absolutely wrecked in double sniper metas. A good soft counter to dive (before Brig) was to have your supports go Lucio/Moira. Triple tank? Try Zen. PharMercy? Try Ana/Zen.
There isnāt really any reliable soft counter to snipers as support players. Mostly, we just have to hope the rest of our team are able to deal with themā¦ maybe poke them a bit behind a shield. All of the supports can theoretically kill a sniper, but none of them are really what Iād say a soft counter.
If this game is supposed to be about switching heroes to counter enemy comps, I donāt think supports should be the exception of never needing to switch.
To be fair, the DPS class doesnāt have much answer to the snipers outside of mirroring it either. Thatās kind of the issue with this meta in particular. You have, what, the snipers, Genji, maybe Pharah? Everyone else kind of gets mulched unless they have a positional advantage or go on a long flank.
I would say support heroes like Ana, Lucio and Zen are better equipped to give snipers a hard time than most of the DPS class anyhow. Long range poke from behind the safety of a barrier, and a good Lucio is incredibly annoying to deal with as Widow or Hanzo. A reminder that Ana was actually considered the superior long range damage dealer when she had 80 damage and before Widow got her charge time buff - if Widow missed her first shot and Ana landed hers at the same time (and proceeded to not miss), Ana would kill Widow before her second shot would have lethal charge. And Zen obviously has RMB which is an ersatz Hanzo arrow.
Honestly if we had a healer that was better vs. snipers than those three they would probably be busted unless it was a heavily emphasized part of their kit. In which case they might as well be DPS.
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First off, I am sorry for how my post came across.
It came from a place of extreme frustration on these forums and not based on anything you personally have said.
That being said; the only real counter to snipers are barriers, flankers, and other snipers.
You could try to out-snipe with Ana; youād have to be careful but you can do it.
Moira is already a support who can flank, albiet very close-range with Fade.
and Brigette already has a shield.
Symmetra [a support/dps hybrid] and her photo barrier is a great counter to snipers.
other than that, I dont see anything you could give a support hero that doesnt already exist as a soft-counter.
Once again I am sorry for how that post came across. I get torn to pieces for asking that Moiraās primary fire be visible before it latches on so you can avoid it easier-- but this thread is asking for supports to outclass yet another dps category.
Brig deals with Dive and Flankers.
Combine that with a Sniper counter [because lets be honest, blizzard either makes new heroes extremely OP or F-tier. No inbetween.] andā¦what can you run?
Nothing except Junkrat and Pharah.
The counter is get behind the shield?
Supports can counter sniper if they stand behind a barrier thatās larger than Brigitteās.
I quite enjoy killing a sniper as a healer. Itās very satisfying.
Lucio can only do it against snipers that canāt aim, because jumping or wallriding makes you very predictable.
What is next ? Why we donāt have 6 support comps ?
Lol first they said why support canāt fight flankers and now this.
I have suicidal thoughts now.
Then youāre not wallriding properly
This isnāt a slippery slope, but thanks for the bump.
You make them sound like a bunch of gas station attendants.
Do want them to wipe your windows too?
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miora tends to kills widows and hanzos rather easily. baguette does too if they get off their pedestal.
Discord Orb comes pretty close even if youāre not the one dealing the damage. It helps the heroes who can duel snipers to get those quick split-second kills.
Supports donāt need to 1v1 snipers, they have a way to avoid snipers by hiding. The same isnāt true against flankers which is why some do have options against them.
Iād say up to Master you have Ana, Zen and a good Lucio that can challenge a Widowmaker. That said, supports definitely shouldnāt have a hard sniper counter. Iād like another counter to snipers, but not a support, because then youāll have the classic situation of a new Hero with an overloaded kit that nobody agrees on how he/she should be balanced.
If Ana (a squishy with no mobility, a dart that hardly works and a long self heal that can only heal her for half) can hide to avoid fire so can anyone else ā including flankers. Supports have no more advantage than others ā some can and some cannot.
Mercy counters her 
Watch Animeticās videos.
why shouldnāt dps players all be able to heal themselves with abilities? Supports can do it!
Do you see how that argument looks from the other side?
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Widow v Ana isnāt a fair fight. Ana needs to tap her three times. Widow needs to hit but once.
Thereās a reason Ana only has one eye.
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