Thats just one of the ways, the simpler way, yes, but there many other factors, (disconsidering the fact Sojourn is broken, for this example, she would be nerfed by 1.5x HS multiplier so she cant one shot),
You lock Legs cuz well, its in the name.(Constant)
You lock Ashe cuz of her very reliable dmg and some mobility.(Burst/Constant)
You lock Widow cuz of her stupid long range and some mobility.(Burst)
You lock Hanzo cuz of his kinda unreliable kinda high long-medium range dmg and some utility/mobility.(Burst, not really hitscan but kinda competes for the same slot)
You lock Soujourn (balanced) for her good mobility, decent utility and decent medium range dmg. (Burst/Constant)
You lock Bastion cuz ya really dislike the opponent’s tank player. (Constant/Burst)
You lock Cassidy cuz you really like left clicking and sometimes tilting people by pressing E and having it work less than half the time. (Burst)
So its not only their range and dmg type that define them.
I dont think so, he would just play on the same spots but with less value in general cuz his E ability aint actually good for high-ground usage much, its for dueling stuff up-close.
I mean ya could lock him if ya really good at him and the map have some weird usages for his ult/recon arrow if Sojourn wasnt so darn better than all of the medium range options, and Dive wasnt so prevalent with Winston and D.va being broken.
Cass though i think needs some help but we’ll c where he stands after Sojourn gets her nerfs on SE02, i would still very much like if they made FTH and his nade more skilled even if he was balanced then.
Spamzo still decent but only on maps like Kings Row with lots of choke points to take advantage of shooting at head level at people. But for sure he is much worse than in OW1. Cass is poop in OW2 without flashbang to cover his weaknesses.
You lock him because he is versatile in shooting at fast moving targets in his 20 meter range. Ashe technically can snipe people point blank, but scope makes it tough. Cass is good shooter 3 meters away from people and 17 meters. He has a weapon that can keep up with Genji jumping over his head, Lucio wall riding around (his grenade is especially useful against stuff like him).
I wouldn’t also neglect grenade ability. Just because Reaper or Genji have cooldowns to prevent it, doesn’t mean it’s bad. It forces them to close gap without using their cooldowns or easily kills them if they don’t have it. Same with Tracer, poke her with gun and stuck when she Recalls. It’s just tool at his disposal that people can trade their tools for. Definetly you need to be scared of new grenade. Reaper wins close range because he easily outdamage Cass gun but can avoid his flashbang. Genji isn’t as bad for Cass, because if he gets stuck, Deflect won’t cancel it, he needs to proactively avoid it + whenever he drops Deflect, it’s easy stuck. Genji needs to close distance and burst Cass quickly or he will lose.
Every single problem in OW1 started like that. It is always a compounding of little thing shortsighted devs think won’t have big consequences but time travel a year from now and we’re all in the crapshow.
Furthermore, devs have mentioned their desire to move away from counters, specially hard counters, and tank busting is nothing more than a category counter in a category locked game, it simply should not exist.
If Cass needs help, he needs help. I favour, if needs be, increasing his rate of fire, the part of his kit with some aim to it, unlike FTH, a relic ability devs have failed to address from the Flashbang days that might as well be removed.
The same can be said for all non-scope heroes though, thats not really enough identity in my books.
Its not just those 2, Tracer and Sombra also can never be stuck killed pretty much, they also play outside his E range if they want to, and those are all of the close range duelists.
Even an Lucio, if played correctly is so fast, it cant stick him at times.
It doesnt even do that cuz even if he hits the nade, it still takes enough time to explode that, some times you just die, in the time it takes to explode since it doesnt stop them from just killing you.
Like i dont disregard it, its just free dmg on a button sometimes but thats awful, specially if ur opponent doesnt care about it like a tank or can just avoid it completely, awful ability imo.
Its also less than useless into a good Zarya since she can basically always bubble it and just farm charge outa it, its bad, really bad.
Not every hero has hitscan, perfectly accurate weapon with 70 damage on it and good fire rate though. All those combined into his weapon makes it better than for example Zen orbs or Bap gun. Singular good chunks of damage is nothing to sneeze at.
Tracer like I said, after forcing recall is easy stick (as she is locked in animation for a short time after recalling), Sombra is forced to disengage (which is just fine for easy to land ability).
Lucio is easy stick once you are close enough to him. Great at punishing reddit Lucios going for boops on maps like Illios. Killing supports and winning duels once you are close enough is much simpler with that ability, especially since it can help greatly against pocketed target for burst damage. Hitting two shots or headshot after grenade explodes will kill even hardly pocketed dps hero usually, something that Soldier for example is basically incapable of doing (as the only burst damage is his rockets but not primary fire). Combination of bursty weapon and grenade is really not that bad imo in duels. Also catching Sojourns and other difficult to shot at targets is not bad.
Agree and I think it’s fair to be honest. Easy to land abilities should have some drawbacks, not being immediate explosion is good counterbalance point for easiness of landing. Otherwise it would be better source of damage than Junk mine.
Thats very specific, alot of heroes though have non-scoped medium range effective weapons, also you’re comparing him to support characters? Thats stooping mighty low for the cowboy.
Even AFTER forcing the recall if u can, she can just play outside of his E range, like she always have before with flash and beat you, in fact, his new nade has less range than his old flash cuz when it explodes all it does is some nerfed dmg.
Sombra as well can play outside his E range and is only forced to get out IF you hit her with it then she comes back faster than its cooldown returns, its pretty useless vs a good Sombra i think.
Good luck with that though, but even then it whiffs at times.
a good Sojourn though i think has more than enough tools to almost never let you stick her and will just one shot your ginormous head like almost every time.
Thats why it needs to be harder to land but with decent utility and some of his value on his kit on his FTH so he aint so dependant on just that and his gun when heroes can just avoid it so easily.
Sorry, just what came to my mind when I thought about similar close-mid range usefulness. From dps what we have? Mei? Less reliable and lower firerate. Torb? Same. Hanzo? Again, projectile not hitscan and different fire rates. Zen and Bap shoot similarly fast and have similar effective range (Zen projectiles are easy to land close range and a lot hard the bigger distance).
Tracer has nerfed damage, sha can’t as quickly kill Cass as she used to. He doesn’t need that Grenade to win, just to keep her on her toes and don’t go too deep on him.
If she plays outside of E range then she deals less damage which is okay. Again, Cass really doesn’t like when people get into his big face. Keeping them away without necessarly flashbanging and fth to death is okay.
From my experience it’s pretty reliable when Lucio engages. It won’t catch him when he runs away with top speed though (which again is fine imo. It’s more of punish tool and “don’t jump on me or you die” rather than “do everything” tool). Landing left clicks is still the most important skill factor to play Cass well. But Grenade help him in duels against mobile heroes and some hp regeneration (again Lucio good example, as it makes him capable of well timed one shot + grenade instead of 4 shots when Lucio is healing himself passively with song)
Sojourn is op so yeah. But if she is close enough it will help xd. I don’t know what to say to you, it’s a punish tool. When played against good players on better heroes, of course you will just lose. Cass sucks against any higher tier hero.
If you make something hard to land he will still suck against mobile heroes. Because good luck landing those FTH against Tracer or whatever.
Bastion, Soldier, Soujourn, Hanzo, (Torb, Mei and Sombra are very debatable, but they are somewhat effective at that medium range too) for DPS, wich is what he competes with.
Pretty much the same ones i put above, cuz they compete with his slot.
Thats true, but thats just her being actually balanced for once i think.
I mean she just has good range i think, Sombra, with her nerfs though… i think shes gonna be pretty matchup dependent.
Thats just the unfortunate thing about his kit really, but i mean as long as they get nerfed he’ll prolly be somewhat balanced but kinda boring imo.
I knew you were gonna bring that up, it would be hard(er) to land but it would still be an easier thing to land than a headshot or even a bodyshot by just a tiny margin, the way i would do it is to just completely take off the tracking when thrown and just put a 1-2M radius detection radius on the nade itself for it to stick to some1 before explosion (it would also have a 20% slow on explosion so its not useless to whiff it by a bit either).
Personally, I think he does enough burst damage. He’s bulky already. Tanks did get more powerful, but he already had range on every tank on top of having the 600 DPS burst in 2 seconds with fth roll fth. It is hilarious how he was carried by flashbang as a unit for any utility.
Ashe/S76 offer better utility than he does. S76 is flat out generally more durable with less burst and team reliance. Ashe does the better burst damage at all ranges with that juicy 160 DPS headshot. Magnade was probably just not the right utility move to give him.
Ok so Bastion of course is only good in his sentry form. Without it he dies super easily and doesn’t have that good damage output (125 dps and fairly low firerate, so missing costs you a lot more than on Soldier).
Soldier is longer range, more mobile hero but lacks that quick burst. More forgiving for missing but less rewarding for landing shots accurately (as no one has 100% tracking, but landing 3 in a row bodyshots on Cass is not that hard. Or one headshot into bodyshot). At longer ranges Soldier wins, at shorter it’s aim dependant but Cass should win usually. And at close range of Cass grenade, Cass easily wins.
Sojourn i don’t want to talk about, she outcompetes everyone at this balance point.
Hanzo has one shot potential for small projectile and low firerate. In duels Cass usually wins thanks to consistency. Hanzo either lands headshot or lands bodyshot and spray his way to finish Cass off or he loses the duel. If he misses bodyshot, he doesn’t have much time to charge another arrow. If flanked Hanzo dies super easily as well. Hanzo also struggles much more against mobile heroes that can avoid his arrows reliably. Cass hitscan weapon is so much better against Genji that Hanzo arrows.
Torb easily loses to Cass at ranges between 10-20 meters. Hitscan vs slow projectile again.
Mei like Torb, but instead of slow projectile, slow firerate. She just doesn’t have good dps, only some burst potential on headshot. Cass easily wins 9 out of 10 duels against Mei imo.
Sombra has advantage when she hacks Cass. Too much damage on his thick body. Maybe with nerfs it will change.
Could be said the same about Reaper. He is super straightforward, but it’s good for some heroes to be easy to pick up. Not every hero should be hard to play, especially since at the end of the day, Overwatch is more casual game than competetive one. People outside of FPS games needs heroes like Mercy, Soldier, Cass and Reaper to have some fun.
I would need to see it in action, but I doubt that 20% slow will make a big difference in most of his bad matchups. 20% doesn’t sound like a lot, especially for merely 1 second duration.
The point isnt that they are better or worse, is that they are medium range non-scope dmg characters like you’ve put here
I would also want Reaper’s kit to be more flushed out in trading his boring lifesteal stats.
He would still keep his low skill floor but would be more incentivized on being creative with his teleports.
Like, Cassidy is always gonna be a character that ultimately you’re gonna need to hit things to be really good at him anyways so why not have his kit follow that logic as well instead of crutchs that are almost beyond useless things.
Its 20% on explosion only, 20% extra on stuck targets so 40% slow for 1s so you can line up them shots easier or create some space between you and your target or both.
Because Blizzard philosophy of designing heroes is for everyone to have some consistent/easy to use abilities. Junkrat is extremely inconsistent with primary fire, so he has mine to help him. Hanzo has inconsistent primary fire, so he got Storm arrow to cover it. Stuff like that, most of the heroes have something that’s easy to use/land.
Okay, that sounds not too bad. But Sojourn E would be better probably even without damage part on it lol. Good zoning instead of skill shot.
Well, it would still be much easier than his primary plus he has a roll too with 50% dmg reduction that just kinda happens and i would also give him a ton of burst dmg on a shotgun type ability , granted you’d wanna HS with it and the spread would not really let you get away with just centering but still, then it also slows ur target to make it easier to land stuff.
I mean technically yes but not exactly, since her E would only cover a small area while his is better for the one target you wanna deal with i think and also on a 8s cooldown so he has it pretty much every time compared to her.
And i mean she would not have a one tap ability anymore so maybe its alright to have pretty comparable utility.
Giving him more survivability/mobility, reaper or sojourn level? You already have those heroes.
Why not just rework FTH, give it a full 6 bullet instant reload that shoots them, and tweak the firing speed/spread to be higher with a 6 seconds CD? That way he destroys shields quicker with higher damage but can’t abuse the damage. If he tries to deliberately go into tanks with dodge roll, people can react to his approach with the slower output of FTH and do something about it.
If people dislike ‘tank buster’, how about faster anti-shields and anti-push pressure by tanks?
I’m thinking about Widow grapple level mobility. Something on long cooldown that allows him to take highgrounds without walking manually or to escape getting rushed by tank. Reaper has Wraith to do it. Sojourn her Slide. Cass has Roll that’s only useful to dodge cooldowns, not really escape from anything.
He wouldn’t take Reaper or Sojourn spot if you buff him, since Reaper has life steal and huge up close dps and Sojourn her one shot potential.