h ttps://twitter.com/GreyFalcon_OW/status/1727107510782620089
Read the comments, it’s literally the third point he makes
I don’t think you understand that 2CP isn’t in the game, and he was talking about 2CP.
Which is why I don’t think you understand what Falcon was saying.
What DOES make a difference is heroes which you pick right out of the gate, and swap first time you die, along with many other things, I did a very large writeup of it.
Every game has either sombra or bastion or sometimes both (but not often). Both fun-sucking heroes. Well done blizz.
Recetly I see much Sombra/Hog/Doom
and right when you see one of them in your team you just prey they are good
cause it’s always - or they are dominating or having 2/17 
When does it mention 2CP in the tweet? I’m pretty sure winrate applies in all game modes that are not arcade modes
And overbuff data is not exactly the most reliable metric either
That was the context of attack and defense sided.
Do I have to explain sample size to you?
But yes, win rates are not a good metric, but I covered that here…
Look, I think you don’t get my point, which is playing different heroes on attack / defense heroes DID give a large difference in win rate, but that was in the context of 2cp, which we don’t have any more.
We have PLENTY of other stuff which messes up win rates, which I cover here.
But “Well attack / defense heroes have wildly different win rates” is… a dubious position these days, in a large part, because 2cp doesn’t exist any more.
Once you understand the history of Falcons positions on a lot of this stuff came out of a lot of conversations between us about the different effects of the game and win rates, you will understand why I’m like “I don’t think you understand the details around this”.
One of the big things you have got messed up is say… there was still 2cp, and you saw Sombra had a below average win rate, that DOESN’T mean she is an attacker hero. It means she has a below average win rate. The thing you would have to establish is that firstly she is used more on attack than defense, and the lack of win rate is covered by that effect.
You haven’t done either, and for a mode which doesn’t exist now. Hybrid and cart doesn’t have nearly the same level of effect as it did for 2cp. KOTH doesn’t have it at all, and neither does push.
This is nonsense, and either you misinterpreted what Greyfalcon was saying or he is confused as well.
Yes, Overwatch WR isn’t the only stat that matters, and Overbuff isn’t absolutely perfect, but both are the best tools we have for determining a characters overall strength(especially when combined with PR).
It’s the first.
Yeah, you have to take some stuff into account though. But, yeah, it is the best we have got outside of when the devs tell us the stats at their end. (or for when people were talking about OWL, the OWL stats we got were pretty extensive).
i much rather have a sombra on the enemy team than a widow
Agreed.
The “Overbuff is worthless” crowd just drives me nuts. First it’s “private profiles” nonsense, then “swap when losing”, and now “attack vs defense,” except they are all just thinly veiled excuses the throw out data they don’t like.
Yeah, you have to take some things into account and a simple glance at WR isn’t as exact as we’d like, but it’s like the majority of the community doesn’t understand sample sizes, polling, or how to interpret any data… just “Nope, Overbuff is trash!”
[edit] …and this dude. “Low WR means they are good on attack?!” How could you possibly twist that to make sense?
It’s like he glanced at a post about time differences on attack vs defense and how it weighed into WR, and without applying a bit of thought into how/why and questioning anything, he got confused at the title and former his own opinion.
So payload maps are not attack sided and defence sided?
His post was also made like last year November, so even if he was mentioning 2CP, why would he mention it in the context of overwatch 2?
…
I mean, you could even read what I wrote…
…
you can ask him if you like.
Yeah, they are doing their analysis backwards. They want to say, “obviously they are getting this because people are selecting her, on attack rather than defense for cart maps (which is obviously a pretty damn dubious claim) and it is having enough of an effect which explains the win rate” (which is also extremely dubious, even if the first claim was right, which is… unlikely).
So they can then claim it means she is overpowered, regardless of what the stats are showing.
Win rates don’t matter. Sombra’s problem is not being fun to play against - that is, beyond the normally acceptable “not fun to play against” level. It’s the same problem dps Doom had. Bad win rates, highly frustrating to play against, moved to tank.
Sombra will get another rework in the future, hopefully sooner rather than later, and hopefully fix the frustration of playing against her once and for all.
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No character is fun to play into when losing. The “Sombra is OP!!” people just have the awareness and gamesense of rocks.
And I still beat Sombra players with zero awareness and the game sense of a rock. What does that say about the Sombra player?
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That they are bad at the game?
Not sure what you’re looking for here, there are certainly Sombra players stuck in Bronze 5 for good reason.
…but if you come to the forum for 5 years straight to chronically whine and call the historically worst performing hero in game “OP,” it’s a skill issue.
She’s a menace in QP.
The instant someone dies to a DPS they usually go Sombra to get revenge on them the rest of the game.
At least this means I don’t encounter Pharah as much when I play Junkrat because it’s likely they’ll go Sombra instead.
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I feel she is poorly designed. If it were up to me, Sombra would definitely be getting buffed. However, her 1v1 potential is hilariously overtuned at the moment. The fact that you need a cleanse hero to scare them is just a testament to that fact.
She was just made as a last ditch effort to get Aaron Keller to rank up so he could play with his son in ranked… Pathetic.
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I wonder… what if they reduced Virus’ damage but made it chain to enemies within a certain radius? Like Winston’s right click in PvE.
I wish I knew how to use the workshop, maybe I could test that.
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That would genuinely be interesting and give her a bit more aoe damage against her counters. And also perhaps teammates would be more cognizant of her presence if it is damaging them as well. Oh, and also because I hate them. 