What's the point of Mercy?

General Discussion
76

no. (xdddddd 20 characters)

77

Keep in mind that there is a youtube account bearing the same name as the forum member you are replying to that calls for a boycott of all Blizzard products

which I would have thought included these forums

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78

I’m not saying it’s not okay

I disagree with your inequalities for the weights. I don’t think there is any sound logic that leads to this compound inequality. Please present it if you have it though

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79

Not really. Goats just bulldozes it again.

80

Okay, then I’ll drop it here, then.

Well, that’s rather rude.

People who main/like a character are the most qualified to tell you what it is fun/what they like about the character and how it feels to play them. People who hate or dislike a character are the most likely to underestimate the kit. For example, look at what happened when Symmetra was reworked to favor people who didn’t like her kit at the expense of those that did; auto-aim removed, turrets reduced, and Ultimates changed. As a result, Symm is even less viable and even less played than she was before.

Likewise, a bad player is not qualified and/or less qualified to talk about balance changes than a good one. This should be common sense. They don’t understand the game and/or the character enough to make an informed opinion. That doesn’t mean they will always be incorrect, but if someone right now were to tell you “Bastion is way too broken” and they’re stuck in Bronze, then their opinion is probably worth less than a GM/Pro player that tells you Bastion is underpowered.

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83

Disagreeing with you is not rude. What is rude is calling someone rude for disagreeing with you about your seemingly arbitrary compound inequality

They are also the most biased towards making their character better.

They are the most biased towards making the character bad or ineffective

I’m pretty sure there is a quote by Jeff recently that confirmed they reworked Symmetra (actually Torbjorn, but same principle) to make her more playable in more situations because they didn’t expect people to main or 1 trick heroes. They intentionally created situational heroes and had to change them because people refuse to only play situational characters when the situation calls for it.

Source:

Being bad at the mechanics of the game doesn’t mean you cannot comment about the game as a whole. They can talk about balance changes at the high level and low level because things are understandable even if you cannot apply them. Sure, they may not be as reliable all the time, but just because you are bad at the game mechanics doesn’t mean you don’t understand the game or the character enough to make an informed opinion.

Onto your example about Bastion. Well, I would say that the Bronze player is correct within the context of their rank. Blizzard wants to balance with all ranks in mind if I recall correctly, so this is definitely still important.

I wouldn’t say their opinion is worth less (That would be rude by the way, to use your own accusation). No, I would say their opinion is more tailored to the rank they are in.

I understand why people would think your inequality makes sense, but I can’t accept it at face value, sorry.

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84

Being shipped with Pharah
#Pharmercy :yellow_heart::blue_heart:

85

Telling me that you “don’t think there is any sound logic” is what’s rude. That goes beyond disagreement into insult.

And no, it’s not rude to call something rude.

Which is why neither opinion is outright DISMISSED. But if you listen to haters at the same level of fans, then the character will become less fun to play. This is a videogame, so the fun of playing said character is a consideration that is EQUAL to balance. Nobody wants to play a game that’s balanced and boring.

Yes, and they failed, because Symmetra is even MORE situational than before.

That’s my point.

That isn’t what I said. As you yourself say later “they may not be as reliable”.

As you just said, their opinion is not as reliable. Again, I did not say they should be ignored.

'Kay.

86

I mean Mercy is a low skill character after all. Not meant for high ranks.

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87

despite that, Mercy sees play at high ranks, with many players maining her…and has even been even played in meaningful professional matches

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88

Which doesn’t make sense for such a low skill hero. That’s why she was nerfed.

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According to both NeptuNo and Seagull, Mercy is one of the most difficult players to play at the highest level due to the complexities involved.

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90

Is this referring to his crouch ability?

91

I have a different understanding of the reasons why she was nerfed than what is stated here

That said, I am unsure why it doesn’t make sense for a high level player (including but not limited to a pro) who is winning games playing Mercy to not play Mercy

Personally, I see Mercy as easy to play for a beginner but difficult to fully master

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92

jep. only can support that.

Def team, I am happy about that new hero. But it REALLY feels like mercy is left in the dust now. Her utility is just trash now, and a lot of suggestions that were made for her were used for that new hero. Death-prevention, not-ally-dependant movement, more engaging ult…

Talking about the ult. Is mercy even taking advantage of his ult in terms of healing? They only are mentioning PROJECTILES! So… the only other healer that takes advantage of it is ana? Seriously?

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93

Well I hate to be beastly and disagree with you but I think if you play him youll see that it’s very hard to consisnetly heal Pharah, Widow, Hanzo, Junkrat, Ashe and any other hero who is bouncing around away from their team as Baptise. Marcy’s mobility and Ana’s hitscan healing are much better for those heroes, who are widely played outside of the very highest levels. My experience is also that Mercy is also a lot more durable than him. He can heal himself very slowly on a 15s cooldown, his jump is often very predictable and his field can save him from a flanker at the cost of diminishing his utility for the duration of the cooldown (unlike Mercy’s low cooldown regeneration passive and 2s cooldown mobility). Aside from being main healers they are demonstrably very different in a number of ways. :blush:

The exact same arguments were made when Moira was released, that she would make Mercy obsolete, and that has definitely proven to be incorrect, as all available statistics and professional play supports :blush:

So instead of pining for slow, clunky mass rez Mercy back, why not embrace the fact that she still has a role, a much higher skill ceiling now thanks to her wonderful movement tech and that she now has a buddy to help her out getting off those risky Rez’s? :blush:

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94

I think this is quite a bit premature

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This is only referring to the gamesense involved and it wasn’t on ladder, only in professional play where every mistake was very quickly punished. They were also referring to the fact that Mercy was typically played by the main support player who is also a shotcaller. This isn’t the same as the ladder experience, even at very high levels. Mercy is now an easy to learn but somewhat difficult to master hero with rewarding movement mechanics and demanding gamesense. She has a good niche and is still seeing a great deal of professional play :slight_smile:

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96

No… that’s not rude. I haven’t seen any logic that I deem sound that supports it. You can’t just throw out inequalities (especially to an applied mathematician like myself) and expect us to believe it without sound logic…

And no, it doesn’t go beyond disagreement. It is literally just a disagreement. If you feel insulted, then I’m sorry, but what I said is not rude.

It is when the person wasn’t being rude, at least to me it is.

I’m not getting into the “fun” argument on this point because it is necessarily entirely subjective and even the “mains” don’t agree on what to do, so it’s sort of a moot point.

However, I would actually say that it is possibly better to make a character more fun to play against rather than fun to play. Utilitarian mind-set basically.

Is it equal though? Because even if the characters are super fun the game will still suck and be boring if it is poorly balanced. I also contend that fun playing against said character is just as if not more important than how it feels to play as them.

You’re… not right though? You may dislike what they did to her, but she is undeniably more useful in more situations than her original release or possibly even 2.0.

And, more importantly in my opinion, she is more fun to play against.

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97

It makes sense.

With how outright limited she is her window/best option to change an engagement is fairly narrow. Her timing, positioning, and ability to read a scenario need to be on point because she doesn’t have the power to directly turn a situation around due to those concrete limits.

In a general response to the topic: I’m unsure how Baptiste will effect Mercy and her place in game, and I’m not sure I really care.

If he overruns her Blizzard will either need to buff her, nerf him, or admit they forced a square peg through a round hole and rework Mercy in a way that adds an appreciable skill curve while keeping her basic functionality easily accessible.

And if he doesn’t, well no reason to get riled up over nothing.

I’m on console so I’ll see how this plays out when it hits live.

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