What would Symm be in OW2?

you legit
did
not.

TP:
legit one of the longest down time mobility abilities in the game (10s min, can have more than 10s because if you have it up somewhere and you’re not using it, that’s also down time. and this even will be more and more frequent as the pace of the game increases). not to mention it has a 2s deployment time. not to also mention if you use it for any team tp or so, that you don’t have it for yourself anymore until you get another tp cast.

Turrets:
just because you have have a turret somewhere further away, that doesn’t equate to sym having longer range. like do you consider junkrat being long ranged just because he can leave a trap on the other side of the map and still have it trigger?

like it’s simply unreasonable to consider turrets as equivalent to a weapon fire or to be as significant enough of their gameplay to count the hero as longer range esp given how counterable they are. like are various heroes’ “range” destructible, or on 10s cd each or heck even when you put them far, they still need the enemy to actually walk past into their los to actually damage while they’re still being able to shoot you back even if they didn’t walk past them?

And the worst accusation of all, “can spam orbs from range”:
just because projectiles don’t have falloff doesn’t mean they don’t have an effective range :point_down:

like do you consider genji or junkrat to be long range just because they can spam far? are you going to go into duel snipers from long range with genji or junkrat and expect to have a good or decent success rate with that spam?
obvs no for the same reasons you don’t expect that from say reaper, tracer, sombra, bap, or any hitscan with a shorter ranged hitscan.

sym (all iterations) simply doesn’t have sufficient tools for uptime. what changed was that old syms legit didn’t have tools for it at the design level, and current sym has really bad tools for it.

and I honestly don’t see your design actually making a good improvement on that core issue, let alone all the drastic gameplay changes you’re imposing form merely changing the core purpose/goal of the hero that I haven’t gone into yet.

I doubt it considering from we’re seen so far with OW2, there seems to be a decrease in tanks’ sustain to facilitate them being more brawly and so whether if it’s viable to speed boost a rein with shield up to take the team closer is a big :question:.

do you consider a reaper sniping with his primary while all mobility abilities are on cd as uptime?

what I want foremost is a design to make sense (i.e. actually conceivably viable) first, and then we can discuss whether or not such a drastic change in gameplay design is “fun” or even reasonable as a rework for sym (this “fun” subjective side I legit haven’t even gone into thus far) as well as whether if there is any point in such a design in context of what’s already in the cast.

legit look at all the other heroes’ designs (who haven’t had historical balance issues) in how they get uptime.

  • mobility compensating low range or vice versa of longer range to compensate
  • sustain to compensate low burst so that they reasonably live long enough in effective range to actuate the sustained value or vice versa of higher burst to compensate low sustain so that they don’t actually need to stay in effective range long.

and when you consider the above principle in context of OW2 whereby teams will generally play more spread out, there will be mobility creep in both dps and tanks (tanks because they’re going to be more brawly, case in point: rein will be able to manually cancel charge, that’s going to lead to reins using charge much more for general mobility), do you honestly think that a low effective heal range support with low mobility and meh sustain is necessarily keep up with most other heroes to do their job well?

I highly doubt so.

you may think what I’m saying is “oh you just want no weaknesses”, but legit look at how various other heroes have been designed and numbered:

  • mercy despite being 15m ranged for beam has a 2s cd GA with 30m range to let her very leniently reach allies to get in range for high uptime as well escape threats. not to mention has a passive self heal on top of how mobile she is which already makes her hard to shoot at.
  • lucio is similar in that as long as he’s alive he’s always healing or speeding people around him and he’s got speed boost and wall ride speed boosts to chase down allies to ensure they get his benefit despite it’s radius and can heal himself while healing allies as well. his healing might be low but his ult provides really high burst sustain for key moments where needed and can boop to peel.
  • ana and zen despite low mobility has decent if not long range on all their abilities so that wasd movement is enough. both have self healing methods. ana has sleep to self peel or peel for others. nade for burst sustain or burst offensive (or both). zen can abuse corners well for shield regen + his volleys for ranged burst that is also his tool for dealing with flankers. and like lucio, has a high sustain ult for key ultimates to compensate low base heals.

etc.

like yeah, those heroes obvs have weaknesses, but the point I’m making here is that when you look at the designs of all the heroes that haven’t had historical balance issues, all of them have tools in their design to try and actually compensate their weaknesses to a degree. heck look at tracer: her weakness is supposedly her fragility (and it is) yet she’s been given also recall that also heals her back up. dps snipers have mobility to get angles and escape flankers despite supposedly not being all that mobile, etc.

like that’s the kind/level of “weakness coverage” we’re dealing with for the vast majority of hero designs in the game already. any new hero design will need to meet that standard to be viable.