Kinda drawing a blank on how Symm should be reworked for OW2.
Since I know she needs something, but it’s hard to picture.
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Remove team TP (and likely construct TP), keep it as personal and indestructible.
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Give her back her personal low cooldown photon barrier.
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Either bring lock-on back or straight up buff her primary (remove the first level).
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Reverse a lot of her damage nerfs.
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250hp.
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Utility that is not as horribly map specific as it is now - Shield Generator was fine it just needed a way to relocate it or ‘‘recycle’’ it for ult charge.
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Sentry usability buffs - being able to recycle them by pressing a button to reduce their cooldown. Making them travel faster within a radius of Sym. Etc.
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Well, do you basically see her as being a “laser version of Reaper”
Or a “Trapper”
Or maybe she gets a range of deployable choices, by having a quickchat-style menu for deployable options.
It’s like I just don’t know where she “fits” as a hero, what sort of gameplay niche she’s supposed to fall into.
Like Reaper or Widow are very straighforward hero designs.
Symm… it’s just really really blurry about “This is what she does”.
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Honestly we need to know what we doing with the other new OW2 Supports if any on that topic.
Because They might overlap.
Repeating mistake we made in the past.
The thing is that Sym is by design a very flexible hero. At least in theory.
But what is undeniable is that she is a close range hero and must have the tools to have the performance of one.
Personally I dont care much about (personal) TP 3.0, but a lot of people do and its obvious that its going to be kept - just not its team functionality, and hopefully not its construct one either.
I dont think you can pin down most of the heroes of the game into a single role anyways - Reaper is a flanker AND a tankbuster (at least in theory and how its intended).
Healer design has no real incidence on Symmetra’s performance and design, and never has.
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Depends on if you rework her into support or not.
If not, maybe make Symmetra’s wall a big pyramid that slows down the enemies within it by the same amount her turrets do. The slowing effect from the turret and the pyramid can’t be stacked. The pyramid is a barrier with 3000HP.
The TP could stay but if it should be removed, I replace it with Symmetra giving the teammate who is the furthest away from you the chance to teleport themselves to her position by pressing interact.
It’s a suggestion, don’t hit me.
Lol, give her the ability to build structures like in Fortnite.
Just thinking of Shield Gen and Brig’s Ult.
If I knew Brig’s Ult was a thing, I would likely have made post asking to remove Shield Gen for something else…. (Likely B.O.B. Aka a Giant turret or maybe Bapt’s lamp.)
Sadly no time machine
Shield Gen and Brig’s ult have stacked once and it came with obvious drawbacks and strengths.
Its not as strong as people claim it is. Specially considering that Torb+Sym stacked for like 2 years and it wasnt gamebreaking - and Torb’s packs had much higher uptime that Rally too.
Not to mention that the hero where extra HP was an issue is only Tracer, who is a broken hero by default that has broken even the smallest smidge of survivability she can get while flanking.
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Still it’s the kinda thing that Sym got Nerfed in the past with another interaction with Genji.
Honestly I don’t think certain Devs share info at times with each other. (Or at least they do now…… maybe.)
SYMMETRAIt’s really hard, but either they will lower her teamwide utility to make her easier to balance/feel more like a DPS. Or they will move her into another category, both of which are possible (smol mid-HP Tank or weird Support). I always liked the idea of her staying as a team player but not relying on her team too much. But making her a typical semi-selfish DPS might be the best way to go if they keep her as a builder/DPS. So maybe…
Bulk: 100 HP/125 Shields
Passive: attacks from her Photon now absorb ammo if they are used vs sentries, turrets, structures, Shields, or Barriers (looks like no ammo used and generating 5% per ammo used). They also heal her personal Shields for 30% of the damage she deals with her Photon Gun.
Ammo: set to 180. Uses 1 ammo per tick for MB1 (9 sec max / 20 ticks per sec). 36 ammo for MB2. Numbers chosen because 360 can be divided evenly into 180 or 36… Because the Devs mentioned they really thought the “360 = sphere = lol sym likes shapes” thing that her original MB1 was based off of.
Charge Mechanic: charge happens with a manually charge using MB2. It takes 1.5 sec for +1 level and it can go up to +3 charge. It takes 0.1 sec to begin the charge and 0.1 delay to end the charge session. When charging, the next 90 ammo (reload or not) will be the level you charged to, then it drops a level. So lvl3 90 ammo + 2 levels lv 90 = 180 of not lvl1 damage. Once level 3 is hit, she stops Charging. Using Charge again will make her release all charges and reload her ammo entirely. This process only takes 0.1 sec startup, 0.3 sec animation lock, 0.1 sec delay (0.5 sec). So she can quickly swap back to long range tickler mode with a full stack of ammo to boot.
MB1 lvl 1: 60, 20m range (beam looks like very faint lines swirling around in a tight circle; not too visually intrusive, faint noises)
MB1 lvl 2: 120 15m range (still swirling lines, but the lines are twice as fat, moderate threat sound radius/visuals)
MB1 lvl 3: 180 10m range (current BRRRRRRRRRRRRR sized beam; hella blinding if getting beamed in the face; RUN NOW noises like McCree’s FtH or Reaper’s guns)
The above changes means she can tickle from afar, like Moira but with ammo. It also means when she’s beaming a mobile enemy and almost finishes them, but ofc they flee… Dropping down a level will let her actually finish the job.
Ability 1: Now can split into 2 building abilities. MB1 for Teleporter, MB2 for Sentries. She can hold 2 charges that charge 1 per 5 sec. Teleporter uses 2 charges, Sentries use 1 charge. There is no cooldown between using the abilities, so she can still plop down 2 Sentries back to back. Both have the same Cast Time of 0.5 sec and Deploy Time of 1 sec. After 30 sec of being fully setup, the Shield bulk totally disappears to make them frailer (so she has to refresh them or deal with the frailness). None can be destroyed manually, only upon deployment of a new Tele or 4th Sentry. Oldest Sentry is destroyed first ofc.
Teleporter: Only she can go through it. Max range of 30m. Has 120HP/120 Shields. When using it, her shields begin their natural regen process immediately, but can still be interrupted by stray damage. The Teleporter can be used 6 times before going boom and there’s a 1 sec internal CD Teleporting. Can’t be destroyed manually, but will be destroyed when another Tele begins Deploying.
Sentries: Up to 3 can be out. Flies at 30mps after Casting. Starts with 30HP after the cast, then gains an additional 60 Shields upon deployment. Deals different damage at 10m/15m/20m ranges; respectively 60DPS/30DPS/15DPS. This also allows her Carwash Achievement to exist again (180DPS max). Also the range is checked every tick/in 0.05 sec intervals so the DPS is applied as close to accurate as possible (good for enemies, bad for Sym, but fair).
Ability 2: Just her Sym 2.0 Photon Barrier. Instant Cast time, same size, same functionality, but 360HP bulk. Casting it gives her a 3 sec speed boost to 6mps and her shield now moves 6mps. It can only exist for 5 sec after cast, until it hits a solid object, or is destroyed. Cooldown is 10 sec. Can be used when someone is just a smidge out of range, like they often are, so Sym can try to catch up. Being built as a Melee char (even in current OW) is a total chore to secure kills properly when your mobility options are soooooo slow and lazy and lacking in defense. This ability sorta fixes all 3 issues without being overbearing.
Ult: Increase Ult requirement by 25%. Shield Generator that takes the same time to setup like her Tele. Can only be cast up to 15m away from her instead of 30m. Lasts 10 seconds and has 360HP for bulk. It adds a max of 50 shields to every ally/self across the entire map and it refreshes (“heals”) in 1 sec intervals. It also emits a constant ball of hardlight in a 15m sphere that pierces walls and shields; it deals 30DPS. So basically a defense mechanism and a mildly annoying offensive use (300 damage max, 500 “blocked” damage max). Actually great for teamfights/fights on the point but still has that annoying 1.5 sec startup time that AoE abilities tend to have.
I mean if they’re keeping her as dps, we’re looking at a aggressive dynamic zoning flanker or simply a jack of all trades mid-ranged flanker.
i.e.
- tp made much faster and do away with the crappy cd mechanic for a better one more like old 3.0 tp cd mechanic (i.e. whereby cd starts upon placement/cast)
- orbs completely renumbered to be more aimable in more ranges (midrange; i.e. projectile size, charge time renumbered around the projectile moving faster)
and whether or not she’s a midranged flanker or a zoner basically comes down to whether if they’re reworking turrets to another ability or not.
and before anyone raises primary:
in no way in hell will sym be able to get decent uptime with that weapon fire without her having tank levels of sustain unless they completely redesign the weapon fire.
like even if they make it a flat dps beam it’d be used less compared to orbs because the game inherently makes everyone start far from their enemies often before slowly converging to somewhere on the map (i.e. each time you or the enemy respawns).
in otherwords, unless you’re as hypermobiles as like tracer or ball, you’re very likely spending much more time further away than say <=15m (let alone <=12m).
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Get rid of teleporter.
Symmetra can now instantly teleport to any one of her sentries.
except that becomes incredibly impractical in multiple ways. i.e.
- if you put turrets somewhere you can safely teleport to (whether for escape or engage), it means that snetry is having downtime until you teleport to it.
- if you put turret somewhere to zone an enemy, teleporting there being appearing right in front or next to them which is suicide in a lot of cases esp when it comes to non-stupid enemies that actually deal with turrets
- unless we’re also speeding up turrets speed drammatically, it’d be worse as an escape because it’s far easier to destroy mid air + depending how far you want to travel and the conditions to teleport (e.g. does the turret need to be fully deployed before you can teleport to it and deployment itself takes like a whole second iirc) it may or may not take longer to pull off than current tp.
- and the issue with speeding up turret flight drammatically is that it gets closer to being unreasonable for low tiers i.e. sym just plops down turrets anywhere to damage with 0 chance for people to destroy midair before they can be deployed.
Realistically:
- HP reverted to 200 (because Blizzard)
- Primary Ramp decay extended to 3 or 4 seconds
- Orb Velocity +10 (35m)
- Turret CD now 8 seconds
- Turrets only go on cooldown when destroyed
Not my wishes, just predicting good ole Blizzard balancing.
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100% I can see them being that stupid or biased enough.
remember when primary legit was 4s to charge up to lvl 3?
or they also tried making internal tp interact cd longer when they put infinite tp on ptr?
or just how generally bad the numbers were on sym1.0?
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Seriously!
Sym 1.0 with primary range of 4 meters?
The 3.0 primary ramp duration you mentioned?
It is like they only test in optimal, controlled environments that are never true to a real game.
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I think that you have to do one of two things.
- You could lean more into her DPS.
- Remove turrets
- Lengthen beam to 18 meters.
- Make secondary fire faster both in travel time and fire rate.
- Give her some kind of hard light damage ability that’s short range but AOE.
- You could reorient her as a support.
- Make turrets heal
- Make secondary fire into a temporary shield that has a cooldown but multiple charges
- Make TP something where you could put down more than one maybe
I’m not sure.
heck not even in optimal or controlled environments are those atrocious numbers and mechanics even balanced.
like who in their right mind thought sym1.0 wasn’t weak? low range hero, with low sustain, low burst and 0 mobility all the while the only thing they could actively contribute most of the game was damage.
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