Part of this I just don’t see as a huge problem… The other side of it, that just seems like a huge problem for a very small minority of players.
How can you say that when 2-2-2 is literally the way this game is balanced and has been the meta for 90% of the game’s history?
Yeah, sure, if you have 1 tank and 2 supports and you never played a tank in your life, going 3rd DPS will work better. But if you have a team of 6 DPS mains, two of which are good tanks and two are good supports, that team will do better in a 2-2-2 even if all 6 have a DPS hero as their best pick.
That’s all a baseline means, a simple starting point that you can then build on - or diverge from - in your games. It doesn’t mean a 2-2-2 composition will always work better even if no one knows how to play the heroes they’re on, that’s obviously not what anyone believes.
You can’t make those people change in the current meta but now at the very least now i wont have to solo tank, also as a solo tank i wont be blamed by selfish dps players because i haven’t created space or as a solo healer i dont get the blame & toxicity because i could keep up with healing the 5 dps when they wont switch off to help
It may still happen but atleast now in most games i’ll have that help as a healer or tank that i almost never got
If dps players had been more inclined to switch to help a solo tank or healer & if higher levels hadn’t created the GoATS meta these changes would have happened those are the ones to blame not those that wanted 2-2-2
I take that as a challenge to try and carry them to victory anyway (by being both, e.g. Brig, Moira, Road…), and if we don’t win, I’m sure that it wasn’t my fault and I get to bask in my smug superiority that they lost the match because of themselves and they’re probably raging about it. Bonus sweet schadenfraude if they blame me as a heal - there’s really nothing you can type into text chat to change the situation so it’s better to just chuckle at how pathetic and impotent they are and find a new game and, hopefully, decent teammates.
That’s exactly my problem. You’ll have exactly two supports and two tanks and two DPS in your game, nothing else. There’s no wiggle room to try and shift the power balance in your favor by stepping outside the meta, e.g. pick another DPS to counter 2/3 shields or extra heal to help your newbie tanks survive. For someone like me, this simply means that all games will be (from my experience) the most boring and stale comp possible. No crazy off-pick counters to wipe the enemy team with, no last second swap to 3rd tank Hammond just to cling to the point until your team can arrive, no “oh God the 6DPS/5DPS+1Heal team is destroying us what do we do?” (yes, that happens a lot more often than you’d think). It’s all just the same, predictable, stale comp which was supposed to be dead at this point and replaced with a whole spectrum of metas more suited to 2019’s Overwatch hero roster.
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And yet people will still tell you to your face that this gives you “more freedom” while clipping the shackles around your wrists and ankles.
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I honestly can’t remember the last time i had a 5DPS happened. Occasionally i get 4DPS, but the clip i showed is what i usually get.
The only time i get 4-5DPS is when i instalock a DPS.
When i’m on my Tank, the games often turn out like this.
A 3-2-1 comp, getting regularly pocketed by two healers is really nice. Same thing happens when there’s a Reinhardt.
As i mentioned in my previous post, people have different hero pools. I don’t know about you but i use endorsement every game so i see what heroes they had used through the match, and there’s a lot more players that switch between DPS and Healer than you think.
The same person that can use Reinhardt may not know how to use Winston, the same person who knows D.va, may not know how to use Zarya, someone that uses Zen may not know how to use Lucio. At the start of the game if you have three DPS the pace of the game tends to become faster which feels great, but when we start getting pushed back, one of the DPS often switches to Roadhog on their own.
In QP, we don’t play for wins, we play for fun, but that also means actual throwers are incredibly rare. The classic torb hammering at a turret in spawn that became a meme in Competitive is nonexistent in QuickPlay because the only one not not having fun is the Torb while everyone else is throwing themselves into the fight going YOLO.
The 6DPS thing is also a lot less prevalent than you may think. I actually got a 6DPS comp this week, awesome, i consider that an event because that’s a good chance to see how well Sombra will work as the healer 
I record a lot of my games, and when i play them back for my self review, i also note what the rest of my team was doing. When they switch, what probably made them switch, and back before profiles became locked, i was also checking their stats on that hero. The Soldier that reminded me of a Mercy by the way he moved around actually was a Mercy main. The Zenyatta that was flicking his shots actually was a McCree. For a mode where the population doesn’t care about wins, they do switch up to better heroes in their roster if the situation calls for them to start getting serious.
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I’m an Orisa main, the rest of my DPS are just picked to counter/kill my main and i occasionally pick them up when i need a refresher, but they’re not a priority. I genuinely find Orisa fun even when she was a troll pick, which i’m sure the rest of the Tank mains would say so as well about their primary.
What you need is to make tanks fun again and stop turning them into pinballs so they’ll actually get picked outside of competitive. Pick a main Tank in QP and the entire attitude changes from YOLO to WINNABLE.
I personally disagree on this one. I play QP to get playtime and practice on heroes I wanna play in the moment, but am not viable with them for Comp. The second reason is to get playtime on my bottom-played heroes. It’s all about playtime and experience on as many heroes as possible. No fun involved.
Ofc, there’s going to be many reasons for many people for playing QP, but this is mine and I’m sure I’m not alone.
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Care to cite the reasons why you believe 2/2/2 role - lock will fail, because so far it has been an undeniable success from what I’ve seen.
People have come out of their way to praise the feature here in this Forum and elsewhere, others are coming back to the game altogether after leaving, etc.
The only people complaining are the people who won’t change their negative views on it that they had even before it was released and even they understand that they’ve ran out of any sort of valid arguments for weeks.
So, yeah what are you trying to prove exactly?
Because from this sentence exactly:
I predict that your main argument will be ““creative”” 4/5/6 DPS comps… So yeah…
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How convenient that nearly all your games include teams I didn’t mention when I listed teams that didn’t put all their money on goats, right?
Yes, Dallas Fuel plays Goats. They’re awful right now.
Yes, the Spark plays Goats. They’re mediocre.
You mention the Shanghai Dragons vs NYXL game.
Shanghai Dragons played 100% triple DPS in that game. Zero Goats on that side. NYXL played 90% Sombra Winston D.va Goats, which is closer to dive than goats, and played pure dive most of the game on Volskaya.
Even if you consider the Sombra Winston comp to be Goats, despite the fact that it plays much more like dive, and has more heroes in common with dive than with goats, it still doesn’t change the fact that the most played composition in that match was triple DPS.
How can you just call that whole game “goats”. That’s idiotic.
You’re just trying to present information in a way that supports your point of view, without caring about what the actual facts are. It’s dishonest, and I’m wasting my time arguing with you.
At launch, the game was balanced around 4-1-1. If it was balanced towards 2-2-2, we would had an equal distribution between roles instead of launching with 5 tanks, 4 supports and 12 DPS.
And some would even argue that we actually launched with 14 DPS because they consider Roadhog and Symmetra DPS.
The devs have been adjusting the balance towards 2-2-2 for a while, but it was not the default at the start, and there are still a bunch heroes that simply work better if they are the third of a certain role.
Meta has nothing to do with balance. It’s about perception and popularity.
Those players have a larger hero pool. They are using their pool on their advantage. That’s literally what I’m talking about above.
If you get a team of 6 DPS players that have no idea how to tank or heal, sticking with those 6 DPS is their best bet towards victory. I can advise them all for learning a hero or two so that they are not left with no options in future matches, but this do not affect the match that is currently happening. People don’t learn how to properly tank in the 90 seconds you have before the match starts.
Using a personal example, my own hero pool is composed of 10 heroes that I’m confident I can carry my weight with them in comp. I will never swap into Widow or McCree or Ashe because I cant hit the broad side of a barn with them, no matter how much my team scream at me, or how good the enemy Pharah is. Putting me into one of those heroes is just asking my team to fight 5v6.
It’s the same thing. Some people might think they picking Mercy is helping the team where there is no healers, but when your Mercy can’t properly GA to stay out of the fire, try to rez in the open all the time, and is using more time running back from spawn than healing the team, you are being detrimental to your team. Because they assume you know how to Mercy. And they take risks they would not take if they knew there was no healer to back them up.
Heck, Jeff literally uses that as an example on the role queue video, that he thought he was helping his team going support, when he was actually playing a full rank below his tank SR.
I main Torb and Sym. I lost count of how many times people told me that doing nothing on Soldier “just to scare Pharah off” would be better than sticking with my mains. And every single time I conceded under social pressure, we lost the fight, and they would still blame me for not being able to do what I warned them I would not be able to do.
The community as a whole don’t understand how personal skill works, how party synergy works, and how OW have, at best, only soft counters.
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Still a lot less stressful than doing that in Competitive. You’re a lot less likely to be insulted for playing badly.
I remember one game, i can’t remember exactly what was said but someone on the other team ticked us off. Everyone on my team suddenly changed heroes, there was absolutely no synergy, but i guess everyone had switched to their mains because we ended up steamrolling them anyway. That was epic
Don’t tick off people in QP, since players don’t use their best hero there, everyone basically has an ace up their sleeve 
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I remember I used to play Sym2 on those situations, and it’s amazing how often it worked with Shield Gen being the party healer. Mostly because DPS heavy comps retreat when they start getting targeted, and the shields had time to regen.
But technically that was not a 6 DPS comp, since Symmetra at the time was a support hero.
For too many people, if Brigitte is being used, it’s goats.
Callback to my previous statement that people don’t know what a team composition is.
All I did was click random vids and random timestamps for games played within the last month.
As someone who does not follow OWL my perspective that nothing but Goats is still being played in OWL has not changed. This is not the reason I do not watch OWL but if it was my viewership would not return. Does not matter if its FLOATS BLOATS TOTES CLOAKS at the end of the day the reason for the loss of viewership is blamed on multi tank multi support comps being run, thus 222.
It doesn’t matter if that’s not what’s happening. It did not matter when people were calling for nerfs to Scatter because it was 1-shotting tanks when in reality it was only Orisa. It did not matter for Doom or Mercy or Sombra or whoever. Someone’s perception can be more powerful than the actual reality, and that’s what 222 addresses when it concerns the OWL. Jeff made a comment about this a long time ago.
Easier to troll/throw through team comp than ever before. And unreportable. Nothing like trying to counter your own teammate!
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Oh yeah only 2-2-2 enforces meta. Let’s just ignore triple tank, moth, dive, GOATS. Yeah you’re right 2-2-2 is an issue because it forced meta.
I already predicted what will come after forced 2-2-2 and it’s already building up.
Here’s the list :
1- Hero bans (since they will have to find something against Symmetra and Torb mains landing on the same team).
2- Specific matchmaking so that people playing on their primary role don’t get matched with people that are playing DPS, tanks or supports as their secondary or tertiary role.
3- Map bans (now that people were granted the forced 2-2-2, 2CP maps are the next target).
4- Overwatch becoming a free-to-play game. This I might understand since the current changes will make a lot of people leave and not everybody would want to buy a game with all the constraints I cited above.
5- And of course many many buffs and nerfs demanded by the community as always when they don’t want to switch to counters. And since a lot of synergy have died thanks to forced 2-2-2, it’s gonna be harder to counter smurfs or certain heroes so I guess it’s gonna be very complicated to find a balance unless every hero looks alike in the long run.
The forums is gonna be even more of a tragic sh*t show very soon.
Popcorn is ready 
!
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Not at launch, during most of the development. They realized during the development that 4-1-1 is super unfun to play for both the tank and the support (Jeff’s words), and the game was rebalanced for a 2-2-2. Sadly, too many heroes were already developed by that point to make a more balanced roster. 
That’s insane, of course it does. If you increase the damage dealt by all the DPS in the game by 50%, you balance the game in favor of the DPS, and the meta would shift to one that’s more DPS heavy. That’s just not up for debate.
Sure, but if your team picks 2D-2T-1S, and one of your top 5 heroes played is a support, even if it’s not your best hero or even in your top 3, you’ll statistically do better by picking that support rather than a tank or a DPS, no? Which, again, is all “a good baseline” means.
Yeah, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t doing more than he would if he picked a third tank and only had a single support on the team. That was always the dilemma in a free queue, “is playing a role I’m good on going to do more for the team than playing a role that I’m mediocre on but makes my team composition more balanced?” It’s a dilemma that no longer exists in role queue.
Well yeah, a lot of people are meta slaves who don’t recognize when you need to break away from the rules. Every rule has exceptions, but that doesn’t mean it’s not sound and accurate as a generalization. 
100% true. Original Goats was:
ReinhardtZarya- Dva
Moira- Lucio
- Brigite
The composition NYXL ran had literally half those heroes, and played completely differently. Even if you accept the version with a Zenyatta as Goats since that was a very early adaptation, you really have to stretch it far to still call the composition they played Goats.