Would be nice for a change.
✅ Most minimal way to block GOATs
❌ OWL could disallow GOATs if needed
Well clearly the whole “lose gigantic chunks of your playerbase over that mentality” didn’t work that well.
“Better marketing” is kinda irrelevant if it forces your product to suck.
ok but if she can’t eat damage for her team by giving them overhealth, then she will need a damage eating ability lol. or she will have to get a significant buff to self heal to compensate cause she will need to body block.
i’m disappointed we haven’t gotten ANY damage mitigation numbers for her from the beta. because I seriously doubt she’s eating more damage than shields are. so it really is very doubtful to me that her team overheal is in any way “fundamentally broken and OP” in the sense that it cannot be tweaked and must be deleted.
That would be a great point but they kinda have their heads up their own bottoms so it’s hard to hear or see advice from outside the company.
One would hope that Microsoft fixes a lot of that.
Since I suspect a lot of the more boneheaded issues are Kotick related
I think all roles should be treated with caution, but the support and tank should get a little bit more attention.
I think they should try to predict as much as possible, but it isn’t realistic to expect them to see into the future.
The whole point of balance is to constantly make changes so that the meta never feels stale.
No, because they need new heroes to be stronger so they know where to pare down and apply nerfs.
Strong heroes are played more, weaker ones will be underused.
It’s not anything to do inherently with tanks and supports.
It’s abilities that buff your team.
These are historically the hardest to balance. They create synergies that are hard to break.
It makes owl boring since it discourages meta diversity. It makes ranked frustrating because your team refuses to (or insists on) running the synergy.
They went out their way to remove team buffing abilities (nerfing/removing CC, reducing shields, etc.). They probably though commanding shout was safe, but I guess not.
BTW there is more to teamwork than buffing your team. But ow players wouldn’t know about that.
Damage is allowed to be busted, as long as it doesn’t slow down the match.
This just isn’t true. Overhealth wasn’t “broken” until streamers decided “This thing is getting in the way of my killing, and that’s bad”.
No, before you could get clever with health; you could overheal important characters so they’d stay alive longer and that adds a level of depth to the game. And we ALL know Overwatch fans don’t like “depth” or “interesting gameplay mechanics”; they just want to shoot things.
Keep in mind, while I’m aware Armor didn’t do too much to stop burst damage, the fact is that it COULD help against it. We can improve upon the mechanic to make it work better instead of gutting it. And yet, its gone, and everyone constantly complains about dying too fast.
dps will just always tend to be less meta defining heroes.
This is a game about teamwork, and most dps heroes are selfish.
Tanks did define metas since day 1 and will always do. It is very well known and obvious, only bunch of forum dps haters refuse to believe to this. Supports do as well have some impact, like early ana and early brig, for example, but to a lesser degree.
Well, i see tanks and supports being the ones defining metas. Not just Tanks. DPS obviously are the most expendable and change vastly based on the current meta tanks and supports.
Their goal isn’t to have a balanced game when releasing new heroes. Their goal is to have over the top heroes that let people dominate the game. That brings new players in on a hero release.
News heroes should be a bit overtuned for a month or so. It’s fun.
Rather they go the approach of launch ashe and release the hero under tuned then steadily buffing them. JQ and sojourn are just frustrating to go against rn and nerfing makes them feel worse for those that like them.
This is why I usually don’t play a new hero outside of training/customs for a few months since they’ll usually get nerfed and I hate having to constantly readjust.
So its okay for dps to be released broken, and its “fun” but tanks and supports should purposely be made underpowered?
Riiiiiiiiiiiiighhhhhhttttt.
And then youll complain about queue times because no one is playing either lmao. Flawless logic.
No, she wasn’t.
Queen is substantially out-of-tune with the rest of the roster and creeps/overlaps into various Support-related abilities.
Fundamental issue was how they designed the game into this trinity system without really understanding how this doesn’t work in a non-MMO environment, as well as a competitive one largely based on FPS-mechanics.
How would you define “underpowered”?
Tanks really shouldn’t be trying to do so much in the first place, and should have some more baseline rules rather than a string of perks and advantages over every other role.
Remember, Tanks have the most durable heroes in the game, have the best crowd control in the game, have the fastest hero in the game. Have some of the most mobile heroes in the game, and they are capable of one-shotting all other targets, with being resilient enough to all other possible one-shots, including their own.
Junker Queen has abilities that ape similarly to Brigitte’s ultimate, and Lucio’s own aura, that is on a single button press, and on a lower cooldown than Lucio’s own Amp. She also borrows the ailments of Biotic Grenade on a wider splash radius. And hits harder than Swiftstrike that’s also on lower cooldown.
Sojourn’s one-shot requires damaging targets first before she can use it. The full charge requires an ammo use of 20 to 35 ammo depending on the target. Then, you’ll need to actually hit the head of a target to do critical damage for a one-shot. The time between fully-charged shots will vary, but it can take as much as 1.5 to ~ 3 seconds. Substantially longer than Widowmaker’s, or Hanzo’s one-shot potential. She also has a tighter/smaller hitbox on her alternative fire than Widowmaker or Hanzo at .1 versus .15 and .2, respectively.
As far as overhealth mechanics are concerned; they’ve been in the game since day one with Lucio’s Sound Barrier. Wrecking Ball’s Adaptive Barrier and Brigitte’s Rally are additional forms of it, with Rally being much stronger thanks to armor mechanics (since removed). Shield health was also a brief part of Symmetra’s kit during early to late beta stages and briefly at launch. Shield Generator was a thing too.
And don’t forget Doomfist’s Best Defense passive, and Sigma’s Kinetic Grasp. Doomfist’s in particular, hasn’t helped him in Overwatch from having the highest death count in the game. So Overhealth isn’t really the problem…
Rather, the operational mechanics may be more at fault. As stated above, Queen’s Command Shout is on an 11 second cooldown, and grants as much overhealth as Brigitte’s Rally, instantly, on top of boosting the movement speed of herself and her team. This is a clear example of “power creep”, awarded to a Tank, and a to a role, that already gets far too many perks and benefits.
This has always been the case with Tanks, not the case with most other heroes, Sojourn included.
Sojourn isn’t doing anything that hasn’t already been available in greater strength on other heroes. She’s very much similar to Soldier in terms of gameplay loop, and kit design. She’s the “Ken” to Soldier’s “Ryu”. If you haven’t critically thought about it, yet, I encourage to do so.
Quoted for emphasis.
Not always, but in the case of Overwatch, they tend to be.
Area effect sustain has been in the game since day one. It’s not going away.
More than that, actually. Alternating speed boosts and overhealth bonuses from allied supports really helps damage mitigating while empowering yours.
Overhealth can stay, but movement speed needs to go. Additionally, Overhealth should probably “ramp-up” rather than being instantaneous. Does Queen really need 200 extra health, or would 100/50 be enough?
So then you have to look at Mei and Junkrat otherwise you’re breaking the rules.
And on the support side, you’d have to eliminate Sigma’s and Doomfist’s overhealth effects on their defensive abilities and and passives.
It’s not a clean fix.
More or less correct. Another way to look at it, is that the overall game balance is inherently bad and caters specifically towards Tanks and Supports being the strongest roles by design. Hence the removal of one tank for OW2.
But again, this leads to still more problems because of the way Tanks were designed and how healing and dealing damage via the Tank/Support roles is so much easier to do than in the Damage-role.
That’s what Command Shout is for. Not to mention that she’s a more difficult to hit target than other Tanks and isn’t supposed to be (according to Blizzard).
See here:
h ttps://static.playoverwatch.com/…https ://static.playoverwatch.com/img/layout/blog/bg-news-372021274d.jpg
She’s basically taking damage comparable to Doomfist. Which is lower than Blizzard seems to want her to take.
Buffs aren’t necessarily a problem when they’re properly apportioned out to the right archetypes that need or can utilize them effectively.
The problem is that, in the case of Overwatch, Blizzard has an unfortunate habit of giving Tanks far too many perks and powerful abilities than they should have, leading to issues as described above as well as the current issues with Overwatch right now (via GOATS or even the 2/2/2 meta game).
To use an MMO example like FF14; in Heavensward and Stormblood expansions, Dragoon, Bard, and Astrologian were overvalued because of the buffs they could bring that weren’t shared with everyone else. Dragoon’s Piercing Vulnerability, Bard’s Mage’s Ballad, and Astrologians cards (in HW, specifically) synergy was so much better that even top-end damage dealers like Samurai and Monk were placed on the way side because of Dragoon’s Piercing Vulnerability benefitted Bard’s damage output who’s buffs in turn benefited Dragoons (and mages). Likewise, Astrologians in HW were the only healers that had damage-boosting buffs (by a substantial) degree that it became optimal to use them over White Mage and Scholars.
SE fixed this in later expansions by removing the buffs and creating a more universal standard, as well as adjusting damage and healing outputs.
(Also, yeah, Ninjas were a thing too for a while).
Armor was incredibly powerful in stopping burst damage on the competitive front. Again, this is an issue where players aren’t understanding how powerful armor is on Tracer or how it works in conjunction with Nanoboost and healing.
One wonders how Torbjorn can benefit his team when he no longer has health packs to deploy. But maybe Overload might save Torbjorn.
Or to put it simply, Damage-role heroes have very little they can do to benefit the team other than kill targets. Damage alone for the role isn’t enough when everyone can do what they do.
Correct. But it is Blizzard’s intention to equalize the output of each role. Thus far, with the introduction of JQ, they haven’t quite proven this yet.
Forms of Sustain early on weren’t stackable with other healing abilities in the same heroes kit.
The first kinds of Sustain were:
Each of these were only usable and were unable to be stacked by the same character healing. It’s there only form of massive aoe/ranged healing or even healing lol.
Now, we have characters like Brig and JQ who have multiple sustain elements and abilities that can stack with other abilities in their kits. Which causes healing creep and sustain creep, which is one of the reasons why Balance is so out of wack.
We wouldn’t have this if Tanks were allowed to just be tanks. People die to fast, and while lowering damage could help, it would also require rethinking each and every hero and their engagement. The smarter option is just to make Tanks tankier, like a damage resistance passive or something, but instead we’re getting sustain for no reason.
I don’t even know, Balance in OW is a cesspool of loopholes lol
Mercy’s Revive was area effect, and included brief invincibility. It was also cheaper to charge up than any other ultimate.
I know a lot of player want to keep discounting Mercy’s area effect capabilities, but Revive always was and is area effect heal that led to certain player and competitive behaviors that needed to be adjusted according to Blizzard.
Not really in the case of Brigitte. Brigitte’s Rally isn’t much different from Lucio’s Sound Barrier, only it’s duration and ramp up due to armor (rather than instant shield health falling over 7 seconds) was the notable difference. Mathematically, they balanced out, except in duration.
Junker Queen, however, has instantaneous overhealth that stacks on and lasts for four seconds. Brigitte couldn’t cover that much overhealth with 3 Repair Packs, on top of a movement speed bonus. Moreover, Brigitte’s overhealth had a ramping effect, not the same case with Queen’s Command Shout.
In most of my games playing as JQ, never did the enemy team ever deplete my overhealth before the duration. So it is probably too much. Not even Doomfist can get that much from Seismic Slam or Rocket Punch. (which are more difficult to generate overhealth from).
Armor is that damage resistance passive. On top of barriers, damage absorption, twice as much health, and/or mitigated critical hit locations.