You say this but then give an comparison…
You’re first assertion is correct. You can’t compare an ultimate that affects the dead to an ultimate that affects the living. That being said, there is no real issue with that by itself.
You see, I can do that. There is nothing wrong in my opinion!
Actually, a opinion can still be wrong. If you’re opinion goes against a fact, then it’s a wrong opinion. I mean, that aside, I don’t see why you should have an opinion that goes against a fact.
It’s just your opinion! That doesn’t automatically make it a fact! 
And your opinion can be just as wrong. Maybe you don’t like that, but you have to accept the opinions of others, even if you disagree! 
Except mine isn’t an opinion. It’s a fact. Also, like I said, I’m disagreeing because it literally is disproven by fact. I don’t need to accept such an opinion as it is literally pointless in doing so.
I think we are done here!
You are not worthy that I waste my time on you! 
I’m wondering the same thing.
My biggest beef against Mass Rez was that it was extremely frustrating to play with because frequently the Mercy (rather than hiding) would try to enforce the whole “die n Mass Rez” strategy, which was like… extremely unfun, and Mercy players could get extremely toxic if you didn’t do it.
Though it easily could have been fixed by eliminating the SR gains from it as well as adding LOS checks, small cast time, and health regen for living teammates (basically, see Platinum’s suggestion for Mass Rez). No need for the nonsense we have now
It wasn’t a bad time if she came out alive. That was the whole point of what I said. You might not agree with it, but back in S3/S4 when I played a lot of Mercy I constantly came across other players that would use this tactic.
Usually she would pop it to gain the invincibility. Whether the flanker pushed her to use it, she came out alive more time than she did dead.
I understand, but that’s not always the case. You might have the ults, but not the player numbers. And “save your Q” doesn’t apply when the opposing Mercy is under a defensive protection, i.e. her team captured the point and you need to attack to (re)gain control of it.
The defense had 0 incentive to use ults since all they had to do was try for a 1-1 trade.
So the attacker would be at a disadvantage even if they tried to save ults until after they gained control of the point, to then have the enemy Mercy come in and Rez.
You and I both know that “save your ults” isn’t really practical.
Which I have never seen back when I played her in S3/S4 at a diamond level.
The good Mercy players knew how to play around that.
Her mobility, which is/was only matched by that of other Dive heroes, was why Zenyatta, who has virtually no mobility, was chosen instead of her in the Dive Meta…
Right.
I disagree with the notion that Resurrect was overpowered, but I’ll humor that for the moment. In that case, what would be the easiest and most intelligent path of action?
Slap a nerf on Resurrect and compensate for that by introducing an E ability, which many of had had actually requested before.
You don’t go trying to force an ultimate into an E ability, because as a basic ability, Resurrect isn’t balanceable.
Why is there a need to sacrifice any of those when we have proof that all three of them can coexist?
We can make educated guesses, but that’s the best anyone who proposes changes can do.
Considering that Mercy was still a must-pick at the time those ideas were gathered and voted on, this is incorrect.
3 Likes
In which case, you did one of two things wrong:
- You were not at the last objective, and it took you 40 seconds of fighting to kill anyone, and then you killed everyone in a 15 meter radius over <10 seconds.
- You were fighting on the last objective and weren’t holding the spawn doors. If Mei came out of spawn and stalled the point, the rest of the enemy team would be back by the time you managed to kill her.
I don’t think I need to articulate what this says about your knowledge on the subject.
That’s not how numbers work.
If you have a 6v6 twice, each team still has a chance of winning.
If you have an 11v6, the team of 6 doesn’t stand a chance.
I’m not sure if this has been addressed yet, but five-mans were extremely rare. In 394 hours of pre-rework Mercy gameplay, I had a whopping 8 five-mans. Now consider that at least 3 of those five-mans failed, resulting in a second teamwipe.
zen was picked in dive 100% because of discord as well as transcendence which got a massive power spike after ana fell out of the meta because nothing countered it. Zen and lucio were the meta in dive until the mercy rework because A. zen discord and trans were incredibly powerful and clearly not replaceable in dive B. lucio made up for zens lack of mobility due to how he was back then. C. Zen unlike mercy could defend himself so he also didnt need the mobility.
no, id happily remove resurrect as a mechanic entirely, i want mercy viable and fun for both sides as much as possible, but it isnt going to happen with rez in the game.
there is no proof, s4 and s5 was not them coexisting in balance, you are deluding yourself thinking mercy was balanced then, she was underpowered due to every part of her kit except rez. Bad healing output, extremely lackluster mobility which a character that cant defend herself needed, she didnt have good ooc healing due to the timer for the healing to start.
one thing i agree with you on.
how is it incorrect, you think about how it would only impact mercy, i doubt you have put much thought into how your rework specifically pacify could impact the game outside of just mercy.
Have you not thought about how pacify would raise the TTK as a side effect and make dps worse as a side effect because if/when theyre hit by it their dps is garbage? A lot of dps already suffer due to their dps being lackluster compared to hanzo/widow and being bad against armor. Have you ever thought about that?
I also never got this argument.
It also feels disheartening if a junk-tire solo ults half of my team with little to no effort. I wasn´t “disheartened” back then when I also whitnessed an enemy huge-rezz.
The thing that disheartens me THE ABSOLUTE MOST is a spamming hanzo who headshots me around the corner by pure luck, or some weird widow-flickshot that couldve not been planned at all. Should we change that? NO! Because it is the basis of these characters. And that exact thing happened to mercy
4 Likes
Except, she probably didn’t come out alive, because 3 ultimates just got flung at her and her team.
And if a flanker is hounding a Mercy player enough to force the Mercy to use Resurrect, chances are that the flanker is good enough to kill the Mercy outright; that fear is the reason the Mercy player used Resurrect in the first place.
Which I’m sure backfired.
Okay.
Did her team come out alive more than not?
Because if Mercy doesn’t have Resurrect and her team is dead, that can’t really be considered a successful maneuver.
It’s the same as baiting Transcendence from Zenyatta. If you pressure Zenyatta into using it before expending any of your own ultimates, that’s a win for your team. Zenyatta might escape alive, but did his team?
In which case, the Mercy flat out wasted Resurrect. It’s like activating DragonBlade to win a 1v1 when there isn’t even a teamfight happening.
I’m not sure where you are getting this idea of ult-trading in this scenario.
What’s happening is that one of the enemy supports just blew one of their ultimates. One of, or possibly the only failsafe preventing or recovering from a multikill has been removed. What do you do in that situation? You move in for a multikill.
You just changed the situation, but okay.
“Save your ults” isn’t what you are supposed to be doing. You are not supposed to hold onto them and never use them; you are supposed to not be an idiot about using them.
If you run into a teamfight using 2-3 ultimates against a team that used none and even then failed to kill the Mercy, it’s your own fault that you got your rear handed to you with that Resurrect. That, or that Mercy is way out of your league as far a skill goes.
When dealing with teams who are smart about their ultimates, a situation in which one team has a Mercy/Resurrect results in the same cost/benefit as a team without a Mercy/Resurrect.
Suppose both teams walk into the fight with 3 ultimates. Team 1 has a Mercy, who has Resurrect charged, and Team 2 does not.
Team 1 is looking to use Resurrect. They engage in the first fight (6v6) without using any ultimates. Meanwhile, Team 2 engages and uses two ultimates to kill four players (four because it was extremely rare to kill and revive five players; four is already pushing it) while sustaining no casualties. Let’s assume that Mercy somehow evades these ultimates, whether through her own skill in evasion or a lack thereof in the enemy’s target prioritization. Mercy then flies in to use Resurrect.
Team 2, who expected such a maneuver, has repositioned and lined up their 3rd ultimate. As soon as the revived team is vulnerable, two of them are dead and a third is in critical condition. Outnumbered and poorly positioned, the revived team crumbles, unable to make any use of their remaining ultimates.
That’s a deficit of two ultimates for a teamwipe. Not a bad trade at all… and that’s before even looking at the amount of ultimate charge gained from killing a team nearly twice over.
The fact that you are here inferring that this strategy was even applicable in season 3 raises questions as to whether or not you really played Mercy during season 3.
Invulnerability wasn’t added to Resurrect until season 4.
“The good Mercy’s knew how to play around that”.
Which is to say that the good Mercy’s knew that pressing Q to save themselves from a flanker was a pretty bad idea, and they would be better off trying to 1v1 the flanker and risk death rather than blowing their failsafe, signalling the enemy to start firing ultimates, and dying anyway.
Speaking as a season 4 GM Mercy main.
2 Likes
The fact that it could never bring Mercy a 100% pick rate in GM.
Mass resurrection countered DPS mains, that was the main issue. In terms of power, even if you brought the whole team up, there are ultimates that can take the whole team down. So it wasn’t any more powerful than ultimate abilities that are still in the game.
The official story is that it was discouraging and not fun to play against. The irony is that under the same logic, Doomfist should be removed from the game. Yeah some are fine with Doomfist but some aren’t, and that was also the case with Mass resurrection. Some were fine with it.
In terms of counterplay, there was an easy solution; teamplay and coordination. Even today there is a requirement of teamplay and coordination. Per example a Genji using his ultimate when there’s a Zenyatta around, is a bad idea. What does he do? Take out the Zenyatta then use his ultimate ability.
But mass resurrection is gone, and it won’t be coming back either. Jeff isn’t happy until Mercy is placed squarely in the F tire that she crawled out from.
What really was wrong with Mass Resurrect was that it encouraged Mercy to play overly safe.
Without Resurrect as a normal ability, Mercy was mostly healing at safe distance all the time and never really took any big risks.
With Resurrect as an ultimate, Mercy was always rewarded for being safe and bringing back allies in a losing fight.
The Mercy rework was not just about balance, but making a Mercy that was more interactive and engaging to play. Some of that may have been lost in all the nerfs, but that’s not something bringing back Mass Resurrect would fix.
To elaborate a bit more, Mercy is the type of hero that can only do one thing at a time and is rewarded for doing the right thing at the right time. Before the rework, Mercy could heal, damage boost and shoot. Healing most of the time correct, and you’d just sometimes click the other mouse button to boost.
After the rework, you suddenly got a fourth new high priority ability that also required you to take huge risks with huge rewards. It changed your mobility pattern, it rewarded you for pushing your limits and raised Mercy’s overall skill ceiling by a lot.