I dont know, as I said before I use my personal experience to present my theory. My theory is that you cant have SR and MMR too far from each other. I would say maximum is something like 400 points from each other.
Once I did a run and I didnt lose single game in like 20 games and I had super good stats, in 4 games in row i received +150 SR per game and I jumped from gold to plat in 4 games :D. I was gaining maximum SR I could get per game and even then I didnt experience anyone on enemy team to compensate my MMR which would had to be very high because i was receiving so much SR . I was still playing with gold people against gold people. I didnt experience enemy teams to be better than my team mates and I didnt experience too good individuals on enemy team as me. So if I had high MMR, where did it go? Only logical explanation would be that it cannot be that higher from SR, thats why I didnt see it in ranks or skill presented by my and enemy team mates. Thats why smurfs climb easy. They have high skill but its not trasfered into MMR probably.
and mine is close to yours (experience wise) however … my large SR gains stopped after I went either 4-0 or 5-0 after the 5 placement matches. In that loss I had a leaver. Have never seen the 100+ SR gains since.
Up until that leaver the game was close but it looked winnable. Killing my SR gains because of that leaver sucked.
On my older account, I never see those SR gains and it took around 50 matches to one trick brig from mid 1700 to 2500 holding around a 75% win rate the entire time. Each win was like 24 SR despite posting top 5% stats on overbuff for all but armor given (it really wasn’t necessary and this stat has since grown a lot as the level of play requires it).
my point, idk that these large SR gains adhere to MMR outside of a few times in the account’s life span. in my experience it was literally the very first placements this account went through, then the following 4 or 5 wins. at that point apparently having a leaver means i was at the proper SR for my MMR despite this obvious problem with a leaver ending my streak?
although, i suppose that isn’t 100% true. my tank role on my old account is currently in low silver. i’m seeing SR gains of around 30 and i’ve seen as low as 6 SR for a loss. problem has been getting win streaks. now i SUCK at tank … but again according to overbuff stats (which aren’t perfect) the numbers i’m putting up are at worst mid gold. think i’ve found my carry tank though with zarya so we’ll see how long it takes to climb out of the hole. players at this level just love shooting her bubbles and i think i’m figuring out her best positioning which is leading to silly numbers.
anyway … i think the system is riddled with issues and always has been. however with high queue times comes alt accounts playing at lower levels for faster queues. i don’t blame them. however if blizzard shutdown IDDQ then they should be shutting down anyone with similar MMRs in lower ranks as the system isn’t dealing with it well. it didnt then, it isn’t now either.
Outside of after placement bonus you have to have big winning streak with very good stats to achieve that. And one lost game and its gone from 100 back to 34 or something
which is stupid. you can’t tell me one loss ruins your MMR.
however, what if this feature were ‘weaponized’. meaning, everyone says placements don’t matter. so, make them matter. every season have some sort of kicker that allows you to dip into enhanced SR gains if you’re popping off for a period of time around placements. not sure exactly how to do this without it being exploitable, but, its dumb that a single loss screws you so harshly when like in my case, I can’t control someone leaving in an otherwise close game. My example was the furthest from a blow out, it was actually a really great game and this dude just left. idk why, but we got screwed and I fell out of the high gains through no fault of my own.
it would be nice if the system periodically pushed people around more than normal instead of feeling like all it is doing is applying downward pressure if you slip a few times. caveat of course is with the presumption that the underlying MMR deserves the push, in either direction. seems like the system quickly preferences steady state allowing MMRs capable of playing in a higher tier to slowly fall due to 50/50 win trading or one bad loss streak sending you down a rat hole of doom.
IDDQD should NOT have been playing in Bronze in the first place. He obtained that account by either purchasing/being given a Bronze-ranked account, OR he made that account and threw his way to Bronze, both methods which are bad. The entire point is that the account had the MMR of a Bronze player. The matchmaker itself does not care how that account got to Bronze.
That’s the entire point of the gains and losses when you have a fresh account. The very first placement of an account that has never played Competitive before will begin at the median, which is MMR of 0 (remember, MMR ranges from -3 and slightly below that, corresponding to the lowest ranked players, to +3 and slightly above that, corresponding to the highest ranked players). And as that account plays more and more games, the gains or losses for winning or losing begin to taper off to what would be considered normal for people playing regularly.
As for the leaver issue, that’s just being unlucky.
If someone is streaming a “Bronze-to-GM” run, you should be reporting that to Blizzard. That is not allowed because of what it takes to get there, especially these days since it’s basically impossible to start a new account at Bronze with 5 placements per role. Unfortunately, unranked-to-whatever proper rank is allowed because of the decision to start all fresh placements at the median. Personally, I don’t like it, but at the same time, considering that this is first and foremost supposed to be a team-reliant game to this extent (there is no other PvP game that is as team-oriented as this game is), I don’t think you’d want to start fresh accounts at the very bottom.
not according to Jeff’s wording. if the system did what is claimed, IDDQD at bronze with his actual MMR should be getting paired up with GMs. that didn’t happen and he was asked to stop … because the system doesn’t work as claimed.
But they’re making a match for 2100, and the MMR is hidden. Some do think that high MMR will cause you to get low MMR teammates or an opposing high MMR enemy, just to make the odds even. Which of course, would make it so your SR doesn’t even matter, and your MMR would only be used to make games harder for you if your MMR is high for your SR range.
I didnt say it did. Jeffs wording is quoted above. Within 15 games the system knew his mmr. Within 15 games then the syatem should have paired him against GMs with a similar mmr regardless of where he sat in the SR brackets.
That didnt happen, he was asked to stop what he was doing - because the system doesn’t actually pair MMRs only. If it did, iddqd wouldnt have caused any issues.
Okay, so… Jeff himself said that a Bronze player should be getting paired with the highest ranked players, if the MMR is doing it’s job?
Well that’s it then. That’s exactly what a lot of us have been saying for ages. It’s forcing even matches so hard that you could be in Gold playing like a Diamond, but instead of ranking up to Diamond… you just get Diamond level matches, in gold.
And I keep saying, Jeff was NOT talking about IDDQD. The entire 15 games quote was NOT about IDDQD.
You’re issue specifically is that you’ve thought the entire time that you were better than your rank and that you couldn’t reach that rank because the matchmaker intentionally put bad players on your team to make it “an even match”.
fine, xion is the one who said it was iddqd idc who it was. within 15 games ‘the system’ supposedly knows what your true MMR is. if that is the case than anyone smurfing, regardless of the SR bracket they’re doing it in, should be paired with MMRs of players in the proper bracket.
That’s not what MMR is. MMR is not a “true rank” that’s independent of SR. There’s NO SUCH THING AS “knowing what a person’s true MMR is” because the matchmaker does not care about that. It only cares about what MMR that account in particular has. That’s why IDDQD can purchase/be given a smurf account in Bronze, or he can purchase an account for himself and throw all placements and any subsequent games down to Bronze. MMR has always been your SR, and your SR has always been your MMR, only a more readable version of it and only after factoring in inactivity decay (which only applied to accounts over SR 3000).
When Jeff made that 15 games quote back then, he made that because theoretically, it only took 15 games for an unranked new account to go from unranked to high GM. And at that time, it was only because of the win streak bonuses combined with the new account uncertainty. Since win streak bonuses are now dead, it’s going to take a lot longer than 15 games now.
Jeff’s post is obsolete. In the early game, streak bonuses were huge, and a new player could get up to GMish in 15 games. The fastest I’ve ever seen someone get unranked to GM in recent seasons is 26 games. Streamer Data - Google Sheets → NerfLucio 13. He did this by not losing till after he hit GM. 100+ games is more common. In that spreadsheet, note that NerfLucio’s SR is close to the SR of his team and his enemy team. If his MMR was much different, this would not be the case. When a player decays heavily, his SR falls below his MMR, and this drags down his team’s SR compared to the enemy SR. Look at the same workbook → Seagull 10.
nonono then why do teams get people throwing to bronze. by that logic, all the throwers would be on the same team. I still get matched with people who think they can play bastion with no shield on attack. Or mercy’s that stand still and 100% heal beam and then wonder why they died. a few days ago the orisa on my team thought her ult healed surrounding teammates -_- meanwhile I have 47 elims with dva and our Tracer just accidently pulsed herself.
No, no, its not about mmr. I was talking about win streak bonus. Its still there to help alt accounts to climb faster. But one game and your win streak bonus is gone.
Placement still do matter, i have different result with it, but it will still help you match sr to your mmr. But its not that big deal as it used to be with 10 placement games.
Its allowed or blizz doesnt care anymore as streamers are doing it publicly without getting banned. If they dont care about streamers showing it to everyone why player base should care and dont do it too right?
They are not dead, you just need more games to activate win streak bonus.
If i am not mistaken, Jeff post was wrote shortly after iddqd case so people connected that with it. But he truly didnt mention iddqd there, so maybe it wasnt related to him.
