The problem is that you are forgetting the flex player entirely. A flex player is not looking to play a specific role or hero. They are looking to both fill at the start of the game and FLEX into different roles as needed. 2-2-2 removes the ability to flex and fill entirely.
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Did you guys not read my previous post?
Having people switch around like a circus every 5 minutes to different Heroes on different roles rarely happens in competitive games. Because that way of play is not productive and usually leads to a loss.
I already explained how the healers or tanks are not switching over to let’s say hitscan heroes or whatever else to counter the other team often. Because that leaves the team without a tank or healer which is a more serious issue than switching to counter the other teams Pharah or whatever else.
And having an argument in the middle of the game with teammates to convince them to take over the healing duties or tanking duties while you try to do the DPS’s job better just causes more issues.
Again this fantasy scenario which everybody agrees just to switch over to other Heroes every 5 minutes and everyones fine with it rarely happens.
And trying to neglect a feature that will have more positives and negatives for something that rarely happens is nonsense.
You want to be a flex player then queue up as different roles every game.
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Hero bans and role queue are two different solutions for different problems, with some overlap.
Hero bans might help with GOATS, I doubt it, but it might. It also helps heroes that are problematic for different ranks, like Reaper. He still broken at lower levels, but useless at higher ranks. Lower ranks could simply deal with this with a ban. Role queue won’t help with that.
However, it has other virtues. It completely ends the pre-fight frustration of 4 dps getting picked and the ensues to ser who’s switching to tank. Locked 2-2-2 is good not just because it ends 3-3-, but also because it ends 3-2-1 and 4-1-1. The role specific SR and queue means you’ll get into a match knowing your function and thus that whole issue is gone.
My experience differs. Because I AM a flex player.
That is not what flexing is.
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Cool. SO you speak out both ends of your mouth. GOtcha.
“hero bans are dumb and limit people’s abilities to play. oh, but role queue totally doesn’t do that and flexing doesn’t happen.”
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So you totally missed my point again. Got it
The point in the first post that I made was that hero bans accomplish next to nothing.
Others have also stated that people like Jayne have tested this already multiple times and it hardly addresses the issues they thought it would.
Why implement something that will not really have much of an impact?
My further point was that a role queue / 2 2 2 will have a better impact and brings more positives than negatives to the table.
Right now how the game is played there are way more negatives than positives.
And denying a feature for scenarios that happens a small percentage of the time (like people switching every 5 minutes) is dumb.
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Nope. I understand your point. I disagree with it.
Short term will be rough. Long term it will create changes. Habbits don’t change over night.
Because long term habbits do not change in a few custom matches.
Disagree. 2-2-2 will only create further issues and create ANOTHER stale meta to replace goats.
Again, not my experience with this game. I have seen people switch plenty of times. You know why? Because having a flex player on your team willing to make changes for the team actually encourages MORE people to do it. It only takes one person to change the attitude of anyone else who wants to win.
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Ah we are still in the negotiation phase of grief over incoming 2/2/2…
- Shock and Disbelief - “What?? They can’t do that!”
- Denial - “2/2/2 is dumb - they will never do that!”
- Guilt - “Damn - I really should have flexed more - I hope no one heard me say that…”
- Bargaining - “What if instead of role queue 2/2/2 we did _________”
- Reflection - “I never, ever realized how hard support and tanking have it… I should be more grateful to them for doing it the next time I autolock Hanzo!”
- Working Through - “I did support today, and you know what? It felt good to heal, I felt whole for a change!”
- Acceptance - “This is great, we really should have done this in season 3!”
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Nope, Discussion forums are a means of going over different concepts.
I will gladly accept 2-2-2 if it comes. That is the dev’s decision. However, that will not prevent me from exploring other alternatives.
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I hope you know my response is a good bit of tongue and cheek - I would prefer bans actually, but Blizz doesn’t like the idea apparently.
THis is it. 100%. Flex players encourage others to flex play. If you play flex yourself, you are much, much more likely to have others play and cooperate with you to flex themselves. I don’t ever have games where people refuse to make meaningful switches.
Cool, but then you still have a lot of players that’ll just quit the game because they feel disenfranchised. Putting in a role lock completely destroys flex players. They’re not going to want to play a game that kills their playstyle.
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Like how some groups of pros played their own ban system and ended up banning heroes that tended to mess with GOATs comp so they ended up playing GOATs more? Yeah that worked out well.
If we truly had a problem of too many flex players we wouldn’t be getting 2/2/2…
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The issue Quisp is that we currently have a system that does nothing to encourage flexing. A Ban system would create this.
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The only thing that banning one hero per team will do is hurt one tricks.
This may sound like a good thing but it isn’t. For example, if you ban Baptiste, that Baptiste one trick will be able to do nothing since Baptiste in unlike any hero in the game and would effectively cause a 5v6. Same principle with Mercy, she is way different from ever other hero. This can be said by most heroes with some exception of hit scans.
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In the short term one tricks would most certainly struggle with this. However, I think as time passes they would adapt and at least extend their hero pool by one or two hero’s as back up plans.
The short term would most certainly be rough. I would not expect a ban system to change the player base over night. The landscape would change over a period of time.
Again - I personally would prefer bans but we won’t be getting them. OTOH, I agree 100% that when there is one SR, people will most likely stick to one to three characters, and rarely flex out. At least with 2/2/2 we were told that a separate SR per role would be incoming, this might not encourage flexing, but it certainly will remove the barrier some folks have to do flexing more.
OR just straight out people quitting the game because they can’t play the heroes they have spent multiple hours working on to perfect and enjoy.
They can, but if they truly cannot flex in a game where flexing is part of it, maybe they should go elsewhere?
I don’t think that is likely as in order for that to happen they would have to see their hero CONSISTENTLY banned.
Considering that one tricks still play this game despite the chance of someone taking “their hero” before they can I doubt they would do the same if banning became a thing.