We pursued a pick/ban system?
One where each team could ban hero’s. Resulting in a varying meta per game and per rank play. GOATS could be addressed at the higher levels of play where it is more prolific where as hero’s that are issues at lower ranks would be less of an issue as well?
Thoughts?
None?
Well I guess I’ll add my own thoughts to the idea.
Impact:
If hero’s could be banned for a match it would impact one tricks and cause them to need backup plans for if their hero was unavailable.
If hero’s could be banned we could see different meta’s at different ranks and keep things interesting.
No, that would lead to A LOT of toxicity and throwing. This game has a decent amount of one tricks that will only play that hero and if they can’t, they throw.
I don’t see how. Someone throwing because of their hero getting banned would end up de-ranking hard. So they would either have to adapt due to the change in nature of the game or face bronze level play for the rest of their life for throwing.
The reason they currently throw is due to someone ELSE playing “their” hero. They are hoping to force that person to surrender the hero to them.
A hero being banned would not be the same thing as no one could surrender the hero to them.
Some one tricks wouldn’t care to derank. Some do it on purpose.
Imagine this -
One Trick = OT
OT is a Hanzo one trick - <1000 on this hero and only 5 hours on the second most played hero.
‘OT’s team bans Hanzo’
OT - “WHAT THE F***! You absolute ***holes! Well have fun with lost sr you ********.”
OT - Throws the match
This is also the case of some people ONLY being able to play one hero.
I watched a few Jayne scrims with hero bans. I would try a hero ban system and/or a seprate 222 queue. It cant hurt to try. I would for sure try a few scrims with hero bans. Aside from another 2/3 roster patch (which i want to happen once a year to keep this game fresh) i dont see what else they can do to keep GOATS out of OWL.
Then they get banned quickly. Solving the problem.
If they are the kind of person who does not care and throws then it is not an issue with the ban/pick system. Its an issue with the player. Which would be dealt with quickly if they are consistently doing this.
The game just doesn’t have enough heroes to have a ban system. Every hero fills an important role and banning one could make entire comps impossible to run. And this will do the opposite of role queue - instead of giving people the opportunity to play what they want and are good at, players would be forced to play heroes they can’t play well enough.
Ban systems are dumb. It’s yet another way to try to force people to play a certain way instead of letting them play the way they want.
This is what people don’t get. Why even continue to play this game if you can’t play it in a way you enjoy. Which means playing heroes you enjoy rather than filling to heroes that are needed that you don’t enjoy and suck at.
It’s like people are constantly trying to brainstorm ways on how they can force others to play in a way that makes their own game play experience enjoyable all while screwing everyone else’s enjoyment.
That is kind of the point. To make people adjust to running different comps.
There would certainly be a time of adjustment where players who play only one hero would have to learn to be a little more flexible. But if a system is in place that encourages knowing more then one hero then the player base as a whole would adjust to it over time.
Might be rough for a little while after implemented but I would consider that “growing pains”.
What’s the point of forcing people to learn new heroes they don’t enjoy? Adjusting is already a skill you need when you have to counter pick the enemy. And this system won’t do any good to OW. Pros won’t ban heroes that are good in Goats. They will ban heroes that are good against Goats. Because actually, there aren’t many of them. Why bother ban the most powerful comp and replace it with another that can be easily countered by Widow or someone else?
Bans are a fantastic idea. Each team gets a ban and they ban that hero across the board for everyone.
WHat’s more toxic? Having a stale meta, or having a hero ban? I don’t understand people who think bans will make things worse?
I agree with this thinking, as long as you also agree that Role Queue/2-2-2 is also unnecessary and forces people to play in a way a certain way.
And what happens when the enemy team bans reaper and runs triple tank? Or bans 76 and Cree, your team doesn’t ban Pharah and nobody can play sniper well?
I really wish we could keep the game as intented, it was built around hero swapping. But it’s clear most people, or at least a lot, do not want to play that way. I think role queue with seperate SR for each role is the only way to do that, but picks and bans would require a much bigger hero roster before it made sense. Maybe in another 4 years.
I wouldn’t say one tricks aren’t really an issue anymore.
This system has worked in other games and will mean there isn’t just one meta.
However the devs have said they dislike the idea (at least for pro play) because they want people to play their best hero. And also the reason why people want 222 isn’t because of a balance meta issue but people just want an even game rather than having a game with no tanks and healers…
I find it hard to believe that out of the plethora of hero’s someone would only find ONE hero to enjoy.
The point of a ban system is to promote different meta’s.
In some cases they may still run goats. Maybe entirely in the following season. However, I can see coach’s and teams coming up with new comps and specific bans to make it difficult to run goats against it.
Short term may see goats remain. Long term a varying meta is more likely. Especially if one or two teams are the “BEST” at running GOATS which forces the other teams to come up with new ways to defeat it. A ban system would be a tool for this.
Because no particular comp would dominate. Leading to varying playstyle that would display peoples ability to adapt and to have a back up plan.
You think that no particular comp will dominate because the pros will be nice enough to ban goats. They don’t care about meta variety, they care about the win. And goats is the safest comp right now to dominate the enemy.
Can you explain this further?
How will it force you to play a certain way. If you will be playing the heros you enjoy and are good at. At all times.
If you want to change roles the next game you queue up as a different role.
In a competitive game you rarely see the mercy switching to Widowmaker to take care of the Pharah because that leaves the game without a healer.
You rarely see Reinhardt switching to Sombra to take care of the Hammond or doomfist. Because that would leave the team without a tank.
90% of the time the people that are actually switching to counter , are DPS.
People make it seem like everybody switching every 5 minutes which is not the case. Everybody sticks to their favorite hero throughout the game most of the time.
You are trying to justify not having role queue or 2-2-2 based on what happens a very very small percentage of the time.
No.
Have you even watched Jaynes pugs where they tested this thing?
It wont solve anything. Also it doesnt work in a games like this.
Goats still can be played with this, they can literally just play another hero when the other one is banned.
And this game doesnt have enough supports/tanks, heroes overall that this could work.
222 is gonna come. Its only matter of time when it does.
The problem is you are only thinking from the top.
Yes, I think the top teams may do this. However, I think the teams who struggle to run goats as effectively would discover new ways to play and new ways to break goats down. Forcing themselves and anyone they played into different playstyles.
A mid tier seed fighting a top tier seed and both running goats leaves the mid tier seed at a disadvantage. Since the mid tier seed will likely recognize this they would look to reduce that disadvantage in some way. Running mirror goats would be a bad decision as it would likely cost them the win.
Banning hero’s that are needed for goats would give them a better shake.
IT forces you to only play within a certain role. What if you’re good at multiple heroes/roles and always switch in game to meet the win condition? Can’t do that in role queue/2-2-2.
At least with hero bans, you only ban 2 heroes and still have the entire roster open. In ROle queue, you’re way, way, wayyyyyyyyy more limited.
You’re telling me that Hero bans are limiting yet are trying to tell me Role QUeue ins’t? See where the problem is?