What if Bastion had a temp shield like Hammond?

General Discussion
101

Oh, okay. So now we have to kill the McCree in order to reach the Bastion. Sure. No problem. We’ll get right on that. Meanwhile, while you’re running Widow, they’re now running Winston, so you just lost your chance at killing McCree.

This game can go on for a while, so let me save you the trouble here. You’re not getting near the Bastion because:

A. He has a shield and will mow you down.
B. He has someone watching his back even if you do manage to get close.

Counting “me, myself, and I” as “not just me” is cheating though.

Nah, we don’t think he’s OP right now, but that’s also because he doesn’t have the things you suggested. Otherwise, he most certainly would be OP. Sure, you have people complaining about Bastion from time to time (like when people are running pirate ship at Junkertown), but the general consensus regarding his shield is that it broke the game and that’s exactly why it was removed.

Much like there was a time where Ana was actually OP and her ult was gaming breaking, but it had to be changed as well. People were right to complain about her being OP then, much like people were right to complain about Bastion being OP with a shield.

Putting Bastion behind Rein or Orisa’s shield isn’t OP. Giving Bastion a personal shield is OP though. Learn the difference. If Bastion doesn’t have to work with his team and can just do whatever the hell he wants, and have his own shield in the process (or high enough armor to sustain WITH an infinite self-heal he can use on the move), that’s just broken any way you slice it.

The reason why Bastion being behind a Rein/Orisa shield isn’t OP is because it requires two heroes. Bastion can’t do it all on his own.

To be fair, the game was new and people had no idea how to deal with him. You’re talking about the days when you could set Bastion on the payload at Gibraltar without a shield and he would still mow teams down with ease, lol. Bastion has pretty much been a “throw pick” since day 1, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t broken though. He’s off meta and always has been, so many are going to have problems with you picking them, but as we all know…

Pick rate is not synonymous with balance. So please don’t think he wasn’t broken just because he was considered a “throw pick”.

There are a handful of heroes that aren’t good with their team right now:

Sym
Torb
Sombra

Just to name some anyway. Welcome to the club, Bastion. Not every character in a competitive game is going to viable, regardless of how many balance changes are made. If it isn’t Bastion, it would just be someone else. That’s just how it goes.

Well, for starters… Hanzo gets most of his damage from Storm Arrow. Secondly, Reaper is a tank buster, so he should have high damage. Lastly, Bastion is also a tank buster, but again… Without proper positioning, he’s pretty much just a paperweight.

You can’t exactly expect Bastion to perform on the same level as a Hanzo or Reaper while having all of the benefits he currently has (like a self-heal he can use on the move for example). If he had the same damage Hanzo or Reaper had, he would have to be toned down. We absolutely cannot have a DPS hero in this game be allowed to get that kind of damage consistently while walking around with a self-heal they can use at any given time.

That’s just… No.

102

You seem to be a “Bastion can’t be buffed because he would instantly be OP” kind of person, and in my experience, they aren’t really worth the effort. Mostly insults, not much valid discussion (“Counting “me, myself, and I” as “not just me” is cheating though.”). Keep it up, do whatever… If he does get a buff/rework, learn to counter him. There is definitely a spot where he would be balanced, he was mostly balanced before the rework (note that being balanced does not mean that a hero is meta), but he needed a couple more buffs. They gave him said buffs, but completely gutted him so that they could go overboard on a buff that no one wanted. If they hadn’t given him Ironclad in the first place, he would be balanced now. He’s as big as a tank, which offsets his healthpool, he can only heal for 4 seconds every 7 seconds, and he needs to set up to get his damage, which makes him vulnerable for 1 second (which is a long time in a game like this). He’s also completely stationary when using his high damage, which makes him an extremely easy target.

103

Actually, I’m not. I was just against your suggestions for a buff. If Blizzard actually has a way to buff him that won’t make him OP, I’m all for it, but from what I’ve seen… They only know how to go from one spectrum to the other when it comes to balancing him. We’ve seen him be OP (two different times now) and we’ve seen him be trash, so if you have a problem with my view on balance, take it up with Blizzard since they’re the ones responsible for my views on the current state of him.

Actually, I’ve provided you with a counter-argument to every post you’ve made so far regarding this, yet now you claim I’m simply providing insults and “not much valid discussion” ? Nice damage control, bro. You should become a politician.

Already know how to counter him, but thanks for the thought.

Yep, there definitely is a spot where he could be balanced, but again… Take it up with Blizzard. All I’ve seen him at is S tier and F tier, so I’m not sure why you’re getting bent out of shape towards my posts regarding this discussion since Blizzard is at fault here.

There it is. This is probably the best reply you’ve made so far in regards to your criticism towards him. Now go relay this to Blizzard and hope they take you up on your suggestion.

Having access to that self-heal though is exactly what’s going to keep him alive during those firefights. Unless, of course, your character has a OHKO anyway. Sure, he needs to set up to get his damage, but that’s no different than any other DPS that needs a proper setup to get their damage as well (see: Hanzo on high ground, Tracer flanking, Junkrat spamming choke, etc.). Every DPS has their own way of getting the most out of their damage, so naturally Bastion will need to follow the same rules.

So is Widow. Just because they’re an “extremely easy target” though doesn’t mean they’ll die quickly. If Bastion is able to take out even 1 person during that time before they die, that’s a good trade. If he’s able to take out 2 before someone can kill him, that’s even better.

There has to be some kind of risk involved (see: 1 second setup) to make him vulnerable if he’s going to be doing that much damage and shredding through shields so easily.

104

See what I mean?

Did I not have removed Ironclad in whatever post I made? I’m doing a lot at the moment, kinda mixing up which is which…

He can stay alive for long enough to get help I guess, but it’s not like he can do anything while repairing… If he gets up, you get a free 0.5 seconds of damage, and he loses Ironclad, if he stays, he has 4 seconds to get help (assuming you do less than 75 damage per second, or thereabouts… a bit more with Ironclad and potential armor).

Yes, but Bastion has to do the 1 second setup while in LOS of the enemies or where they’re going to be. If he’s walking around actively seeking kills (which is what I was responding to), he’s going to have to deploy while in LOS of the enemies or else he won’t be able to shoot them.

Widow is much smaller and sets up much much further away.

Same deal with Doomfist. He gets in, kills one or two, then either gets out or dies. Either way, it’s a a good trade as long as he’s not dumb about picking targets. Bastion just has to do that without mobility…

105

I saw exactly what you meant. You were suddenly on the defensive for no apparent reason and called me out, claiming I was simply hurling insults your way and not providing “much valid discussion”. What kind of response were you expecting from that? I’ve been given you plenty of valid discussion here, but you turned my counter-argument into something personal and became aggressive for no good reason, so of course I’d retaliate in kind.

Yes, you mentioned Ironclad should be removed, but you also claimed to want additional buffs on top of what you suggested earlier, which was overkill, imo.

That’s more than what most of the DPS have for help though. I’m sure Hanzo, McCree, etc. would love to have some kind of self-heal to keep them in that fight juuuuuuuuust a little longer so their teammates can help them and kill whoever is trying to attack them.

Alternatively, he could set up in a position preemptively and shoot them upon their arrival (from a flank position on high ground for example). Still, even if he has to set up in the enemy’s LOS though, he’s still able to tear through them with ease unless their team is designed to counter Bastion (which most aren’t). Rein has a high pick rate at the moment, so Bastion will be able to shred through that shield rather easily, even if someone should come to try and kill Bastion during that time.

The shield will be down and will give your team time to capitalize on that, either with an Earthshatter of their own or just through burst damage. Even if that’s all you were able to do with Bastion, that would still be enough because chances are… The other team isn’t running a better shield breaking comp (since double sniper seems to be pretty common these days or just running Hanzo for DPS).

Yep, but she’s still an easy target and stationary though. It’s just a matter of actually focusing her, much like Bastion. If either are left alone, then you can be sure they’ll wreck havoc.

As he should. Bastion doesn’t have mobility, even the lore covers as much. Every hero has their drawback. Bastion’s is the lack of mobility.

106

In addition to earlier? I think there might be a miscommunication here somethere…

All I’m wanting is no Ironclad, new Recon, new Self-heal, new transform time, old Sentry, old Tank…

They have mobility to disengage… McCree doesn’t have as much mobility as others, but he has pretty decent damage now.

So design it to counter a Bastion…? Yeah, you might die once, that happens…

Yeah, you’ll most likely want to swap off Rein then… Running deathball into a Bastion isn’t going to work without a LOT of damage, you’ll just have to swap up your comp if they have a Bastion… as the game should be…

107

Fair enough.

I’m sure most DPS would love to have a self-heal over mobility though. Mobility won’t restore the HP you lost when you took a hit.

Well yeah, they’ll have to swap to something that counters Bastion once they die the first time, lol. If they don’t, it will be easy for Bastion to keep getting kills while going uncontested.

Alternatively though, if Bastion isn’t working, then you should be willing to swap up the team comp as well since as you already said… That’s the way the game should be.

108

I mean yeah probably, but you can’t have everyone have lots of healing… Bastion is going to be taking more damage than most DPS because he’s bigger and he’s a freaking minigun, that’s where focus goes immediately. Combined with immobility, he kinda needs a self-heal…

Oh yeah, of course… I’m not saying he should be an immortal god-king that can do extremely well in any comp <cough> Hanzo </cough>, if he’s getting countered pretty hard, he should definitely swap. I just want him to be reliable.

109

Right. He has a minigun and he can self-heal. He might be taking more damage than most DPS, but that’s if and ONLY if the enemy team decides to focus him. Meanwhile, you’ll have the rest of your team contesting on point or something and only those DPS are being focused.

Well, as I already said before… With any competitive game out there, you’re going to have some characters which are just downright trash. I mean, it would be nice if we lived in a perfect world where everyone could be viable, but that’s just never going to happen, unfortunately. Some characters will be worse than others at the end of the day.

Those are the heroes people tend to gravitate towards (see: meta) since it gives them the highest chance for success.

110

If they don’t focus the Bastion, that’s their own fault :confused: …

Low pickrates and trash aren’t necessarily the same thing though. He can have good, reliable damage, but not be picked very often because someone else is easier to run. There’s no real way to force Bastion to be meta (except for making him OP like they did with his rework), but they can at least make him good at his job, that’s all I’m asking for.

I don’t mind if he stays f-tier forever, as long as he’s good. That just means that people aren’t picking him because they either don’t like him, or someone else is easier to use, which is fine. Not everyone likes his playstyle.

111

Bastion didn’t have it on a cooldown for a specific amount of time and it also had more health before so we really can’t compare them as much as you are.

112

It wasn’t nerfed it was deleted. I would have been absolutely fine if they nerfed it. But they deleted it.