Immediately cue the legions of DPS mains whining about it being unfair how that they can no longer 1v1 and dominate the enemy tank.
“Raid bosses” simply don’t work. They’re not allowed to.
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First off, I don’t agree. You guys keep saying this like its true, but in reality you’ll find that some characters need counters. If tanks are allowed to press W without counters, you WILL grow to hate it.
Oh, I can see you’re unwilling to have a rational conversation about this. You sound like the people who thought 5v5 would save Overwatch…until they got it.
Bro, your opinion isn’t the only valid one. What makes you think you can go around saying “You’re wrong because I didn’t like it”?
Delete Ana from the game and/or evolve the format into 6v6
Characters should counter other specific characters yes. What a character shouldn’t do is counter an entire role.
If a character counters an entire role then there’s never situation where you shouldn’t play them. They are objectively the best character in their role if there’s never a situation where they’re suboptimal.
Also don’t act like role queue wasn’t in the game for less than half it’s existence and that 2019 to 2022 Overwatch wasn’t the worst time of the game. 6v6 isn’t role queue and 2 tanks was the standard for a shorter time than people tell themselves
Oh, and I should say it’s quite the joke you think I’m irrational when you think it’s good that Ana counters an entire role. “There should be a best character in the game guys, it’s more fun that way!”
I’d argue one character being made explicitly to counter another character is more unhealthy. One character would just be the winning option. If a character has tools to generally counter a role, there can still be wiggle room since they weren’t made as the “Character defeater from the start”.
Like how Nade and Sleep dart can be blocked or dodged by tanks. Do you think it’d be more healthy if Ana was just tailor made to beat a specific character? How could the game even last in that regard?
Yeah, people usually find arguments funny when they misinterpret them due to their own arrogance. That’s a pretty common thing on this forum. Meanwhile, you think its okay for one character to just be the winning option in a matchup.
Off the top of my head.
That, and Cass Nade doesn’t cancel active mobility abilities. It only blocks casting new mobility abilities.
Yes, a character made to counter another specific character because the initial one is too strong is a bad thing
Kiriko
Exists because Ana needs to be changed
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Give tanks adaptive CC/debuff passives, maybe DMG reduction passive to a lesser extent. If you keep stacking CC/debuff on the tank, consecutive CC/debuffs become less and less effective to a minimum percentage. This would discourage throwing all your CC/debuff solely on the tank. DMG could go down maybe to 90% minimum, whatever IDK.
EX: Sleep dart + nade combo. 3.5sec on tank but nade debuff is halved from 4sec to 2sec, and so on and goes down to a minimum CC/debuff duration of 1sec-0.5sec.
Maybe tanks take a maximum of 75-150 DMG when they’re above 50-75% HP or something.
Have you seen the posts where I said “there should have been multiple cleanses in Overwatch from day one”? No? And that’s why you’re saying this to me as if I don’t find the idea of “invent character to counter character” dumb already?
Also, I’m just going to directly challenge you on this anyway. Kiriko is made to cleanse various debuffs. Stuns, Poisons, burns, and yes even Anti. Ana is only one thing she cleanses, so Ana is only one thing she counters.
Therefore, I don’t think its just a fact that Kiriko was made EXPLICITLY to counter Ana. Where’s your evidence that she was? Did a dev say it or something?
Nah, we need another tank player to help relieve the pressure.
2 Likes
What should be doesn’t matter, it’s about what is and what is is that they added Kiriko because Ana is stupid
They wouldn’t need Kiriko if they’d change Ana. She’s clearly too strong because she’s too good against tanks because her abilities are balanced around aim when there’s a role that exists to be easy to aim at.
Ana needs to be nerfed because anti heal is too strong. Sleep dart needs to replaced because it’s a problematic ability that adds nothing unique to the game and is therefore not integral to how Ana functions.
Honestly, hot take, making tanks CC immune/highly CC resistant and making them more ‘honest’ in playstyle (Rein/Winston/D.Va for example; even if they’ve got an advantage over you, their kits are designed in such a way that deaths to them never really feel unfair) could do wonders for everyone involved.
But honestly, just reverting to 6v6 and tuning hp back a bit would do wonders.
Also nerf Ana anti into the ground. Keep the heal boost as good as it is though, it’s actually kinda nice to clutch w/ it.
Some ideas:
Anti replaced with Special HP Mitigation (Armor doesn’t resist damage, shields don’t regen, overhealth doesn’t reduce ult charge during effect)
Anti replaced with Recoverable HP Reduction (Heroes can’t be healed beyond 70% of their max health during effect)
Anti replaced with a nonlethal DoT
Anti replaced with Recoverable HP Reduction (Heroes can’t be healed past the health they had upon receiving the effect; excess heals increase the recoverable HP cap without healing any damage)
As for a sleep nerf: Projectile lifetime reduced to .25s, (from whatever the default is) significantly culling her sleep range down to 15m.
The main appeal about the tank role is, that you are the sole person that can choose what hero you want or need. (with noone else taking your main 
– well, its a bonus anyway)
But this gives the Tank player the ability to “direct” the battle (especially if his team is paying attention to what you are picking) by choosing the best for whatever situation.
This kind of makes the Tank role a “leadership” role and can feel that way.
I’m not going to just let you say that like its a fact. As I said, Kiriko counters more things than just Ana’s anti nade; she counters all debuffs. What makes you think she was put in just for Ana? Streamers told you so? Are you just parroting common forum speak?
I don’t think they even care. After all their “solution” was just to remove 1 tank from both teams.
Except it isn’t. Unless both of your healers are better than the enemy ones, you will spend more time hugging walls than actually tanking.
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The more we talk about it, the more it seems like tanks just need to resist damage more. Nerf Anti heal and Discord orb, and tanks will still be hugging walls for the literal same reason you’re stating now: support diff.
Since just nerfing anything that might negatively effect a tank is silly, why not just make tanks hardier?
Thus is why i said, if the team is paying attention to the tanks pick. Not all healers pair well with certain tanks. But the tank can make a pick he/she feels is best for the current situation. So, indirectly, the tank is still “leading” the fight.
Yes, Kiriko obviously counters more than Ana. Tell me though, what other significant debuffs existed in this game pre Kiriko? There aren’t a lot, mostly stuns and those all got removed(except Ana’s lol) at Kiriko release
My honest opinion is that Tanks can be more appealing if they were worse tanks.
Right now, Tanks carry the entire party. If the tank goes down, the entire team fight is lost. You rarely recover unless the enemy tank also dies shortly after. Tanks are far too important, and they need to play optimally if the team has any chance of winning. This is far too much agency for a single unit. You can have an under performing DPS or Support and still be able to win. An under performing Tanks is a loss more often than not.
The problem is that the good tanks are very good. Orisa, Zarya, and Reinhardt are very very hard to kill. But they’re also incredibly boring. The “fun” tanks, like D.VA, Roadhog, and Doomfist, are pretty bad at tanking damage but they’re engaging and play an active role on the team.
So my opinion is that we need to take the pressure off of the tank role, and reduce their ability to Raid Boss their way in a team fight. By doing so, we have room to expand the fun parts of their kits AND not have every team fight be “Who can take down the enemy tank first”.
Cancel the Hog rework. Just leave him alone. That will make tank more appealing to me, at least. At this pace, we are going to just revert to being a cringe Chinese bootleg Metro. I did not want this for myself. 