You would be banned so quickly.
1 Like
Ok bud
I’m just saying. Go back and read your posts and you will agree with me. 
1 Like
Im not even gonna bother…
goodbye brig, rot in pieces
Did my coment just get deleted?
Ok den
Wouldnt be suprised if this thread was deleted too
All it did is attract toxic ppl so mods feel free to delete this
Im not so inclined to agree with this.
Briggs is a very domineering force. Not at just a particular rank, but all ranks.
At her worst, in bronze- she tends to float around a 53% win rate.
Her most recently weekly has her at a 54%. In bronze. With a decent pick rate.
Shes one of only 3 heroes to have a positive rate in bronze- with the other two relying heavily on automated aspects of their kits, but more about them later.
This is a HUGE tell, and kept in mind with other contexts is definitely worth looking at.
When we look at the “lowest” tiers of a competitive ladder in a multi-hero game, we typically expect the heroes to look subpar
The reason for this (and why this is important) is largely because most players do not fall into the lowest skill buckets.
This is important because bronze players are often not playing against entirely bronze players- and are often matched with, but equally important, against better players.
This tends to give whatever the lowest tier of a ladder is, exaggeratingly “low” stats. This is true for basically every game ive ever worked on, and been familiar with.
Overwatch is no different.
Briggs- despite this, performs more than well.
There is a reason.
Sym and torb are the others- and if their success wasnt limited to low tiers it would be a flag.
But again it’s important to keep in mind much of their strength comes from automated offenses- which is a huge boon in tiers where players are notoriously lacking on aim and other vital skills.
As these skills improve- their automated aspects become less influential- which is why (with other reasons) their pick rates drop sharply as players get better.
Do me a favor and look at this:
“One of these things is not like the other”
We can argue about what the issue is- but there are MANY red flags that there is an issue. Saying its because people simply dont want to learn or similar, and that there isnt an issue, i feel is arguably denial.
Goats, and its effectiveness- as well as “1 shot heroes”, is a complex matter
First off: yes. Briggs is a huge driving force in this comp- for a number of reasons.
The problem as players and pros are starting to see it, is that supports do too much consistent healing, and supports/tanks combined do enough collective damage, that most primarily offensive picks are obsolete and not worth their trade offs currently.
You can simply do comparable levels of damage, with more inherent personal survivability, and better overal team defenses, with support/tank heavy comps.
Briggs is important (currently) in this meta due to her capacity to play heavily offensive, armor key targets on demand to shut down most flanker attempts or save vital targets on demand, and largely- because of her current capacity to safely engage on rein (who has been a major meta piece on his own) on her own, and create a large window-opening for her team to follow up on- namely by disrupting the shield long enough for her own rein to earth shatter uncontested
OHKO heroes in specific situations are potentially powerful in this meta because their burst gives their team an opportunity to break through the sky high heals before the healing can matter- generating picks that other dps heroes who work off damage over time and “consistent” damage simply couldnt.
Theyd be more prevalent if other circumstances allowed- but many map and side limitations prevent this. (This is why heroes like doomfist appear strong in our current meta, but arent “must picks”. Hes very strong in the situations he works, but those situations arent every game either side. This is true for hanzo and widow as well)
These changes to briggs address many of these concerns.
Now dont get me wrong.
I feel briggs needs mechanical changes that address some of these issues but maintain should her overal potential effectiveness (and i can make an equally long winded rant on that topic alone). Ive often defended briggs overall current power outside of specific examples- expressing concern that if they DONT change these core mechanical concerns- that theyd simply shoe horn themselves to tweaking numbers to balance her into a pathetic feeling state.
And this is exactly whats happening with her.
Which is an utter shame.
Oh the irony of this statement. Who is flooding the forums crying about brig nerfs? Brig mains. Who refuses to acknowledge statistics like brig being top win rate ever since her release in every rank and then defends brig as a balanced hero? Brig mains. Who accuses rofessional players of being whinny babies when they’re voicing their concerns of balance in the game WHEN THESE ARE THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD WHO HAVE A FAR BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE GAME THAN ANYONE. Brig mains are the immature crowd here. Funny thing is my first ptr game with brig I got potg and gold healing and I have a total of 2 hours on the hero in my life. You’re all freaking out over nothing.
1 Like
[quote=“MagyTheMage-1534, post:10, topic:252451, full:true”]I woulf extend more but im done responding to the same repeated argument every day and debunking it
[/quote]
But you’re the one who made the thread which brought people here for the same repeated argument. So… maybe don’t?
Okay, this like Magy says narrows down to “Just click Tracer in the head” forgetting that she is the most mobile hero in the game with one of the smallest hit boxes. They are having to expend more resources in order to kill her. It’s a lot less costly for Tracer to bait it and kill them.
Not only that, but this argument was also used by Mercy players before Rez was reworked and everyone said that “Killing her isn’t a real counter” so…why doesn’t this logic apply to Tracer?
A dead Mercy couldn’t rez.
A dead Tracer can’t kill.
Honestly imo they’re one in the same argument. The difference is, to counter a Mercy outside of killing her, you just had to have a good sense of ult economy, and you could use big AOE damage ult (D.va bomb, junk tire ect) to kill the team again. Tracer, outside of killing her…there’s really nothing. There’s hack but…who plays Sombra? And Tracer just has to blink away.
Not only that but on the subject of Brig, her nerf gives her the worst follow up to her CC.
- McCree
Flashbang + Headshot = 165 damage
Flash + FtH (after buff) = 355 (if he hits all 6, he only needs to land 3 to kill Tracer at 190) - Roadhog
Hook + shot = 180 damage - Ana
sleep + shoot + nade + shoot = 205 (a flat 200 without the sleep though) - Brig with her 5 dmg
bash + flail + whip = 110
flail + bash + flail + whip = 145
Honestly I don’t play Brig, or Tracer. I am by all means a neutral party in this nerf fiasco. I play Zen, Hanzo, and sometimes Ana or Mercy. Sure I have a support bias, but this isn’t about her supporting, this is about her damage. No one deserves to have a 90% damage nerf with a “compensatory” buff that you don’t even feel the effects of until the end of the fight or she stops swinging.
This is like taking Soldier’s Helix and saying “It does 12 damage and to make up for it, he now heals 41.467 heath per second on his biotic field.” It normally does 40.8. I am also only using him because he has the best comparison. A burst damage ability and a heal ability as well.
Genji’s Swift Strike now does 7 damage. It’s just annoying to play against in my experience especially when paired with his double jump.
Are these “fair”? Not in my opinion. Like I said, by all means nerf it. It honestly doesn’t effect me any like I said. Nerf it to 25 damage. It’s similar to McCree and Roadhog’s damage on their stuns. Not only that, but there’s only 3 tenths of a second (that’s about as fast as you can blink) difference between Brig and McCree’s stun. So, imo they should be treated the same.
Edit: I actually just read the quote past "Oh this is a list of “counters” I pulled and “Zen counters Tracer in Lower ELO’s” HA I am in gold and I am Zen player that people have told me to “get out of gold” because I am too good for Gold. (I am not saying I think I deserve to be there, this is what other people have said) and I can count more times that I have been one-cliped + melee’ed by Tracer before I was able to turn around.
Potg doesnt mean anything
And if you get gold healing as brig you either have no other healer or they are asleep
Brig has a big winrate yes, but from personal experience, and this is what brig mains feel, she does not feel different to lets say fighting a roadhog, once hooked your dead
Or a mccree…which can literally double combo a roadhog
Where does her winrate come from? I think its a sym like situation
When shes good, shes really good, and when shes bad, she is so trash people switch off
Her winrate is high, but shes the 2nd least picked support according to overbuff DESPITE her rank
And even then, there are heroes (rein) who have 52% winrate and 12% pickrate, which mind you, their winrate is 3% off of brigs, and thats only because his pickrate is so high that it tends to equalize thr winrate
Yet no one points this out? And thry go strIght for brig
He said Plat and below. There won’t be any smart Tracers.
Eh, therr can be smart low rank ppl tbh
Not all of them that are therr are clueless to what their doing,
Usually smart, low ranked players are trolls or Smurfs. I don’t mean to be rude, but there is a reason why they are low ranked.
Maybe their in low ranksdue to other factors
Like, mechanical skill
Or bad teammates
Or tunnelvision
Or bad ult economy
But they still have gamesense
First off, I never agreed with that change anyway so don’t lump everyone together.
The counters I mentioned were for specific reasons. Hog- Landing a hook will almost always result in a kill. McCree-He can throw his stun, and kill her with a headshot. Zen- He is a bit more like click the heads but he can bait a tracer then m2. Ana- Sleep dart is a tough one to hit but a good Ana can use them to keep a tracer away, although still Ana is not the best counter. Soldier- An m2 melee combo kills a tracer. Mei- Clicking heads yes but only needs to hit one shot.
Most of these counters involve something other than just clicking a head. They generally keep a tracer from coming in too close because then you can stun and kill or helix and melee. A Tracer can’t do much damage from far away. She also can’t take much damage, which can be used to your advantage.
As stupid as it sounds, you can stun a hero in this game. Crazy I know. If you play McCree, you force Tracer to play around you to avoid being stunned and killed. She can’t risk going in close all the time. Either way, Brig still counters Tracer, even though a support can’t insta kill a dps now. As of Sombra, not many people play her. But saying you can’t hack her is ridiculous. Hack is still usually in range if Tracer blinks. And she doesn’t have infinite either.
You compared Brig to a Dps, an Offtank, and a main healer. Off course Bri-a support- is not going to output more damage than a dps or off tank that is broken.
As for Ana, tell me what is harder. Hitting a projectile shot that is super tiny on a moving target, or holding a full body shield up and pressing m1 in someone’s general direction. Sleep dart takes 10 times more skill and has 5 seconds longer on cd, and leaves her with no defense. Then, according to your combo, she has to hit 2 shots and use her only other ability to kill a squishy. So assuming you hit this tiny dart on like a genji, you gotta shoot him, nade him, then hit him again when he gets up to kill him. Now you’re down your sleep, your nade, and 2 shots. Brig gets to keep her shield as defense, and can easily hit her stun.
You seem very pro-Brig. You have not said anything against her yet
So even if there is a super op hero that is bringing the game down and the devs have already nerfed it 6 times but it still dominates the game, the devs should still go easy on it? No way! People are quitting because of this hero. Let’s try it out to see if she really is trash now or people are just sad their main can’t instakill people anymore
Yes but soldier is balanced sooooo
But it is not a stun, he is a DPS, he has to engage and get close, he can be stunned or killed through it, and it doesn’t combo with anything. Not a good comparison at all
For christ’s sake.
BRIG IS NOT DPS
BRIG IS A SUPPORT
SHE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO OUTPUT AS MUCH DAMAGE
SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE THE SAME CAPABILITIES
She is also an off-tank off-support hybrid. Name me 1 tank that isnt deadly when someone is in their face.
Rein is deadly in his range which is about the same as Brig’s, only all his abilities out-damage hers. This isnt a problem, but worthy of making a note of.
D.va has her rockets and mech guns.
Roadhog is roadhog.
Winston has a solid 60dps canon that cannot be blocked and a sheild that he can dance around to block damage.
Hammond has his piledriver.
Zarya when shes high charge not to mention bubbles.
Orisa can negate 50% of the damage she takes.
All of these abilities have 2 stipulations: They have to be in their effective range, and all have pretty long cooldowns. Which also runs true for brig.
Hook is 8 seconds bash is 7.
If you run into her with her combo off CD this is like running into Hog with his hook of CD you’re probably not gonna make it out alive.
Brig is not a DPS I never said she was, but she isnt only a support either.
I stand by my statement that no one deserves a 90% damage nerf, its too much at once. If they did this incremently then fine, but as it stands this is too much all at once. There is another big nerf to her on PTR that didnt even make it to live before they did this they should’ve seen where that nerf did before this inho.
I honestly say that I only seem pro brig because i cannot see a good side to this. This is only trying to make her worthless.
It’s a lot easier for Tracer to learn to dodge and bait out these stuns. She is the most mobile hero in the entire game. Heck I am that bad tracer player who rewinds themselves off a cliff and I can bait out flash and hook. It’s not hard.
Also Ana’s combo is a well known combo. She does it all the time. Big time Ana players such as Gale have given tips on how to make the shoot nade shoot combo work almost everytime. Brig is spending the same amount of resources. Two abilities and some primary action.
Sorry this is disorganized I am on mobile.
I don’t have to say it thanks to you.
Rein has lower DPS output than Brig does. Rein is more prone to shield breaking than Brig is… Why? Because her shield is so small, roadhog can barely break her shield with his ult, reaper struggles against it, and he is one of the best shield breakers in the game.
You need to learn the difference between a Spike Damage dealer, and a DPS damage dealer.
Rein is a spike damage dealer in his range, it’s why he can destroy Brig at melee range even through her stun, unless she uses her ult. Then this so called overpowered tank, loses the battle of attrition against her, because her survivability is better than main tanks.
To much survivability, to many CC’s, and to much DPS for her kit to be justified any other way.
If she’s going to maintain that survivability, she needs a CC CD nerf, or a damage nerf.
You decide, either way, it has to be done and there’s no justification you can make otherwise.
In every game I play in QP, her pick rate is predictable.
As soon as a team is getting rolled someone ALWAYS switches to Brig, and then suddenly their team wins more often than not.
She has to much influence in game turn-arounds because of her kit. She makes to many characters obsolete, and has no natural hard counter.
Mod Edit: Removed inappropriate language.
It’s not really comparing Brigitte to a DPS, off-tank, and main healer. It’s comparing their stuns. Because these are the big hard stuns that come to mind. If we can give Shield Bash some of its damage back and in exchange, bring it down to Flashbang’s duration, I’m all for it. That’d be taking it down to 0.7s.
But as it stands, all the big stuns are either tied to a kit capable of solo followup (Flashbang, Hook, Sleep) or they are capable of escape (Sleep, Flashbang+Roll even if that’s not the best escape, it still puts some distance). Shield Bash now accomplishes neither of these. You can’t really escape after the stun, and you don’t have enough followup either.
The issue with these counters is that, for the most part, her counters are expending a lot more resources than she would have to. It arguably takes more skill for Hog or McCree to land their stuns when Tracers inevitably learn to bait it out (as they have for bash). Same for Sleep. And, if we’re going to bring in the False Pillars of Balance (something that I first saw on the old forums which was in turn inspired by TF2 forums), the only counter for Tracer falls under False Pillar II: Just kill the user.
For reference, here is the quote from the post.
False Pillar II: Just kill the user
To show how flawed this logic is, give a sniper a rifle that kills everything instantly no matter where it hits.
It’s fine, because you can just kill the sniper.
This logic is incorrect because the players on the opposing team would have been actively trying to kill the user regardless of whether or not the player is using an OP item, not to mention that the user might not be easy to kill at all.
That’s essentially the counterplay you have provided for Tracer. Brigitte use to have this same problem, yeah, but they were fixing that by making it so you could counter it by getting behind a shield. They didn’t need to tack on the damage nerf on top of that.
If stuns were all it took to make Tracer a non-issue, we wouldn’t have Brigitte in the game. Even Tracer mains have said that it’s not the stun that makes Brigitte counter her; it’s the armor. So this damage nerf, on all accounts, makes little sense to me.
It usually falls down to one of two things: Either one, Sombra and Tracer rarely run into each other so Sombra isn’t in a situation where she can counter her unless that is the sole reason for picking her (in which case, you are limiting her value); or, Tracer keeps interrupting Hack with Blink or her damage, and if it’s not her putting Hack on a 2s cooldown, it’s her team. Plus, Sombra doesn’t really get a ton of consistent value until you hit pro play. Or unless you’re Fitzy. Everywhere else, she can be a risky or inconsistent pick.
My biggest complaint is the nerf came too soon. The “can’t go through shields” nerf isn’t even on live yet. So we don’t even know how that nerf will play out. We should play with that nerf a bit before we get 5 dmg bash. Even then, 20 dmg bash would achieve the same results. She would still have an advantage with Tracer. It just turns her 200HP combo into her 150HP combo.
I would argue that he is underpowered because of all the power creep with burst in this game. Burst healing is good and burst damage is good as well. Soldier really doesn’t have a place in this game because sustain fights aren’t favored.
I mean, he kinda can combo? There’s the whole “cancelling the recovery of his shurikens with melee or Swift Strike” thing. And comboing a Swift Strike elim into another Swift Strike.
But yeah, a better comparison would probably be “Reinhardt’s Charge now does 30 damage” or “Roadhog’s Hook now does 3 damage”.
I know Caliginous probably addressed this, but I’m going to add a bit more.
Brigitte does not output as much damage as a DPS. She outputs as much damage as an off-tank.
Magy made a separate thread where they made this point that I very much agree with and it was basically this: When it comes to comparing damage, it’s not about the quantity but about the frequency.
For example, Roadhog can Hook people into one shot from his primary and either frag them or take out a huge chunk of their health. Yet that damage only comes every 8 seconds at the most. He does tons of damage, but it’s not consistent.
Zarya can do tons of damage, but only when she is at high charge. High damage, but not consistent.
D.Va’s combo only goes when she has all of her abilities up (boost up to someone and shoot and rockets at the same time). High damage, but not consistent.
Brigitte’s combo can be devastating, yeah, but it’s not consistent. It only happens every 10 seconds or so because she’s having to wait for both her whip and her bash to be back up before she can do it again. She’s dependent on her cooldowns in order to do damage because she doesn’t have the range nor the mobility to get in there herself. That’s a characteristic of every off-tank.
So the damage she can do is not output comparable to DPS. It’s output comparable to off-tanks.