Visor.gg is bad here's why

General Discussion
1

There is a distinct difference between a fair advantage and an unfair advantage.

An unfair advantage is when you gain advantage in a way that others can’t (among other things) .

If you think about it, it’s pretty self explanatory.

A fair advantage is when you gain advantage in ways that others can, but haven’t.

If you want to label them, one would be considered legal, the other illegal.

A fair advantage includes getting better, honing your skills, recording, analyzing, practicing etc.

However, it also includes using things that are available to everyone, and doing things anyone can do as it’s based on the principle of a level playing field.

This is why Soldier was first changed in my mind, because of the advantage players had with programmable mice.

An unfair advantage includes taking performance enhancing drugs, cheating, stealing, lying etc.

This is why people that cheat get banned. It gives you an unfair advantage.

With the above in mind, it’s easy to understand why there are rules governing the use of things such as software and hardware in the industry, because the lines can get blurry.

So, I feel like we should have a discussion about how we see visor.gg

I personally think it gives players a fair advantage for a few reasons.

Aside from the fact that everyone can use it, it provides you with something everyone can do, and that is get better.

I don’t see it as cheating because it’s not making decisions for you. It’s not performing any actions for you.

It’s still up to you to make a decision, and then execute it. Which is a whole other thing in itself.

As you get better, you will lose the training wheels. They naturally become a hindrance.

That being said, do I support the use of it? No.

I think it’s important to understand that you’re effectively blocking the accessibility of real time coaching online if you do argue against it, which I’m not necessarily against, but it does need pointing out.

I’m all for saving Humanity etc. So, I won’t be using or supporting it, as I feel it’s a pretty dark hole that it opens up…

… However, I don’t feel it’s unfair to use…but we should still kill it…

… What are your thoughts?

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Do they allow a coach for just a single team on stage in the OWL giving real time advice in the moment to a player that would have missed something? Is that a common thing allowed in a tournament setting in games? Or would it be considered an unfair advantage, since both teams didn’t have it?

I would imagine that neither should be allowed, especially in comp, but others may feel different. I don’t really have a dog in this fight either way.

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I’m with you.

…this is an everyday application that’s fast-tracking players understanding of the game.

My gut is really screaming at me man. I think this is bad, like real bad.

I don’t think people understand the level of badness this is on.

This is like, quadrillions of levels above and beyond cheating in a video game type of bad.

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4

To me it looks more like deck trackers in Hearthstone. they are not allowed in tournaments, but are not considered cheating by blizzard. since it does the same thing that you could do with a paper and pen. it looks like Visor just scans your screen and reminds you some information that you could gather your self. it does not play this game for you. Having a GM friend sitting besides you and giving you advise is also not cheating. just my 2 cents :slight_smile:

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Yeah but there’s a difference between dealing with a human vs a computer.

Don’t tell me you’re happy to deal with the latter either… As much as it’s not cheating it’s better to deal with the human.

Trust me.

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At the end of the day only Blizzard’s stance on the topic matters; the features are at provided by this thing are at least really edgy.

It clearly violates the anti-cheating agreement:
Anti Cheating Agreement - Legal – Blizzard Entertainment

Point 1B and 1C specifically.

So in short the chances are really high Blizzard is going to consider it a cheat; simply don’t use it if you do value your account.

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For me personally i don’t see what advantages Visor gives enemy team against me. if i want to improve and lets say reach Masters (where they keep track of ulties probably better then Visor) i see that as a good learning tool to play against

8

Glad one company will be against it if it goes through.

Totally with you, but some things are more important than being the best at a video game <3

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The thing is that Visor, currently anyway and probably for the entire lifetime of the product, will have trouble surpassing a decently experienced human coach. A computer algorithm can only analyse so many possibilities and get so much from observing things like the kill feed or the scorecard, where a real human coach can do so much more that a computer algorithm can’t. I don’t personally see this as a threat to real human coaching, but an economical variant of asking for some fairly basic coaching. Some people can’t afford to hire a coach, and if Visor remains free to use (or at the very least quite cheap compared to hiring a coach) then I think it’s okay.

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I personally am Really On the fence about this one…

I would never use it, but… i can see where it would be genuinely Good and beneficial for new, or struggling players…

But lets flip that coin around, and…

Now it’s worse for higher levels of play, as… it really would give some people better tactical advantage, than others playing at that rank, who don’t have it.

11

The mental aspects of the game are just as important as the physical aspects though. If someone wouldn’t have noticed something that the app points out to them, then how is that any different than something allowing them to perform a physical action they otherwise couldn’t do without modification?

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Now that is well put… But once again, it’s so hard to tell what parts of it are bad, good… I mean, hell.

I would rather Blizz just learn from this, and Put something in the game, that does something similar, to a weaker extent.

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Agreed. I briefly tried it out and thought it was interesting. This would be no different to the example you gave, or giving someone tips over a live stream, or perhaps even stream sniping someone. Many threads, not this one however, that I’ve seen so far which are against Visor have used the ‘ult tracking’ argument. However, it doesn’t track them accurately at all. I could use some timers and some hotkeys to simply track when possible enemy ults might appear, no different really to how Visor is doing it (likely monitors the kill feed and has timers). That argument also doesn’t wash with me because of the kill cams, they accurately reveal the progress of an opponent’s ultimate ability yet very few complain about it.

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Use the app. You’ll understand.

It’s an application programmed by humans. Can’t be that smart.

I’m not a betting man but I put good money on humans still out-performing machines at this point.

But think about it for a second. It’s not as great as you make it out to be.

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I’ve tried it out for a couple hours and you guys are simply over-reacting. the only way ultimate tracking prediction comes true is if enemy has been holding ult for more than a min…since what it feels like it is doing is counting the passive 1% ult charge u gain every 3-4secs, meaning it can’t count how much ult charge enemies got off doing dmg/healing. (imo i’m a silver player and even i can predict when to get ready to defense matrix the zarya/hanzo/mei ult.)(also many popular streamers like unit lost and ninja from fortnite have all said the ultimate prediction is terribly inaccurate).

this program is actually a ok coaching program since it tells you if your healers are dying too fast in teamfights, meaning flanker problems…or any other teammate is getting picked too much by a certain enemy player so u can aid em. it also tells you if enemies are trickling in but that one i knew how to do already as silver player lols.

the feature i like most is that its overbuff 2.0 (meaning way better), how so? for example if i did too little healing or died too much during round 1 cause i was being too agressive, the stats can show me that so i can make improvements in the same game during round 2.

i wish that blizzard buys this program and implants it into game since its an excellent coaching program that will tell ppl what they are doing wrong.

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One of the main problems I see in OW is the ability to improve. our training room is very poor. i remember my biggest improvement was when i got lucky in kill streak and got from diamond to masters and manage to learn from better players in a game. When you spent 90% time with people that are similar skill to yours you don’t improve. you do the same mistakes over and over again. I haven’t tried Visor, but if it can help people to get better at the game i am all for it.

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Look it’s not exactly owl coach level advice…it’s like hey…your mercy’s beening dying early…pay attention.

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Regardless, it is something you didn’t know on your own. And it is available to you constantly.

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It’s something that I should be paying attention. I could set up a timer on my phone for an estimated amount of time before a blade or mentally track it. Besides the apps not even accurate

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And if you did that, that would be you thinking to perform an action, not an idea being handed to you that you would not have thought of on your own.