I mean your statements are so blatantly wrong, it’s like debating a Flat Earther.
Soldier is easier than Mercy - flat out wrong.
Mercy harder than other supports - flat out wrong.
Mercy requires mechanical skill like Ana - flat out wrong.
Mass Rez requires more skill than single rez - flat out wrong.
I mean these statements are so fundamentally wrong, they are literally like claiming the Earth is flat. There’s so much overwhelming evidence that you are wrong I literally cannot take you seriously.
If there so much evidence that shows these statements wrong, I guess i would be such an easy job for you to prove them wrong.
All you keep doing is laughing at people and refuting people’s arguments with… literally nothing more than “it’s wrong”.
You know, it’s not how a discussion works. You need to discuss the points made by your opposition and bring counterarguments, examples, statistics,… to refute said points.
Let’s take your example
I have a problem with this specific part:
You are implying here that mechanical requirement -or skill, whatever- are somehow linked to consistency, as you say that A is more consistent because of its lack of mechanical skill.
A few post later, you affirm this
And now your initial argument falls appart.
If skill =/= consistency, then character A isn’t more consistent than character B.
Currently not thanks to valk and E rez. Before, yes, he was. Anyway, before the revert (call it rework if you want, why not) somepeople could find him easier, but it seems you don’t realise about the fact that each person is different to the rest, so…
Never said that. Mercy is indeed a one star support, but her healing mechanic is harder than other supports. Currently Lucio is harder than Mercy for example because he must engage with his team while using amp it up (which heals only 3 hp/s less than valk and during less time, so he must time it properly). However, Mercy now can just press Q and hide behind a cloud or a wall. Also, her E rez takes no skill at all but searching a place to hide. Anyway, there is a lot of discussion about Mercy vs Moira, but I won’t discuss about that.
They don’t take the same, but they both take some of it. Saying that Mercy takes no mechanical skill is flat out wrong too.
Sooooo biased there xDDDDD. Zero proofs, zero arguments… nothing but just a flat out wrong statement. Well… here I go. Let’s compare them.
Current rez:
1- MANDATORY STEP. EVERYTHING ELSE RELIES ON THIS STEP: Can I hide for my rez? If the answer is yes, then go ahead with the list. If the answer is no, then…
1.A- Can my team babysit me? If the answer is yes, then try it. If the answer is no, then…
1.B- Is my teammate so bad positioned that I can go and rez him with zero risks? If the answer is yes, then go ahead. If the answer is no, then…
1.C- Don’t even think about it.
2- Teammate’s importance: Easy ranks: main tank > tank => another support => dps with massive destruction ult > dps.
3- Wait 30 seconds for the next stupid mistake.
Mass rez:
1- How dramatic the situation is? How many teammates are dead? What team is winning the fight? Does the situation really require your ult?
2- What’s the importance of each character you are going to rez? Easy ranks + complex ranks. Main tank or support + dps? 2 dpss + tank or support + dps with ult ready?
3- Own positioning and teammate’s positioning. Are they too splitted, so if you rez them they will die one by one after you wasting your ult? Can you reach one more teammate or it’s good enough like this?
4- Everyone’s resources. Does the enemy has ults? Will your team die easily after your rez?
5- Game awareness. Is that fight so important that you really need to use your rez? Or you will just waste it? Can your team win without it?
6- Survivality. Are you under pressure? Will you survive until your best possible rez? Or you must use it now despite it couldn’t be the best rez possible?
So yes, 3 of your statements are taking words from my mouth or conveniently twisting my arguments, and the last one is like claiming that the Earth is flat. As you said, there is so much overwhelming evidence that you are wrong in that last one that no one could take you seriously. You are trying even to contradict all the pros of the game, and that’s laughable.
Soldier requires mechanical skill to play. Mercy requires no mechanical skill to play.
Mercy has more survivability than Zen and requires no aim. Requires less positioning to heal than Lucio, doesn’t need to combo like Brigitte to be effective, has more mobility than Moira and requires no resource tracking, easier to play than Ana, do we count Symmetra in this still?
Mercy requires mechanical skill like Ana - where? How? Do you consider holding M1 mechanical skill?
Mass Rez required the player to go in and press Q - literally almost uncounterable. Single rez requires Mercy to be stationary, needs situational awareness, game sense, coordination and decision making. It’s also counterable and interruptible.
Easy-peasy. I mean I’m actually surprised you wanted this, I mean those are statements are so fundamentally wrong, it’s like asking me to prove the Sky is blue.
Oh I provide plenty of arguments. You just choose to ignore them or break them down and take them out of context to fit whatever narrative you want.
AGAIN, taken out of context. I’m specifically referring to Mercy with this point. Holding M1 isn’t a skill and therefore skill =/= consistency.
No, because I never claim this as a general statement. I claim this in so far as Mercy - holding M1 is not a skill and is 100% consistent. Skill applies to Ana because she requires mechanical skill, the more mechanical skill she has, the more consistency she has.
Straigh false. Both require mechanical skill to play. Mercy required to prioritise targets and use her abilities at the exact time. Soldier can spam them all and has not the pressure of being the enemy’s focus unless he is playing stupid.
That’s somewhat correct thanks to the revert. Before it was different, she had to track all the resources of the battlefield. Zen’s healing orb doesn’t really need aim neither. Lucio must only worry about being there and survive, that’s all. Mercy needed her teammates for being mobile, unlike now that she can go afk behind the clouds with ez mode valk. No, we don’t count Sym, she never was a real support.
You are bringing false arguments that people are systematically debunking telling you that everyone in this game, from bronze to even the pros are saying the opposite. However, you choose to twist everything and laugh at everyone who dares to oppose you because… yes. I’m sorry, but you are wrong, the Earth is not flat. This was proved long ago, it’s time to move on. Same about Mercy. Valk was proved bad design long ago (indeed during game’s development), stationary rez was proved bad design long ago (alpha/beta) and trash 50 hp/s healing was proved bad idea long ago (seasons 2-3 specially) because if you have a character whose only input is that he can moves fast but he is mediocre in everything else, people will choose any other character who can do his job properly. Being mediocre in your own job is not how you balance anything in this world. Even in real live, if you are mediocre at work, the boss will choose other people to be raised instead of you. Why? Because even if they have some restrictions, they at least exceel in what they are doing. Mercy exceels in nothing relevant to her team. Moving fast? Okay, that helps her, but her team? Nope, so you’d better pick Ana or any other support because they at least can do their work more efficiently than her.
You’re not even explaining. “X = Y, because I just said so.”
That’s not what I call arguing. If you’re not even trying I can not really help you.
I didn’t think it would be that hard, let me show you how to support a claim.
Soldier’s main gameplay is moving around and pew pew-ing.
What are the skills involed ?
Positioning
Could be argued to be a basic skill as it is needed for every hero.
Aim
This one is pretty self-explanatory I guess. If you can’t hit your targets, you’re not beeing useful in any way.
Cooldown managements
This is a secondary skill I think, as it is not the most important one. However, knowing when it is best to use biotic heal, or helix rockets, can make the difference between a kill secured and a kill missed.
General knowlegde
Secondary-level skill again, but still. What I mean here is beeing able to know when to push, when to retreat, when to pop your ult, etc…
That’s what I got. If anyone find something else, feel free to correct me as I do not play Soldier a lot and might have missed something.
Moving on to Mercy.
Where does this come from ?
The holy book of Overwatch stereotypes ?
As a side note, I’d want to say that mechanical skill doesn’t dictate how easy a character is to play. We were discussing the difficulty of a hero to be played, and you came in to say “Mechanical skill !”, which shows your bias to begin with.
Anyway, back to Mercy
Positionning
One of the most important if not the most important skill involved when playing Mercy. As a support, Mercy is #1 priority to find and kill. She’s the character everyone know they need to do everything they can to kill her.
As she cannot fight back (or rather is not supposed to) when she’s attacked, Mercy’s positionning must be meticulous, as one step forward can sometimes expose you to a bigger danger than you may think.
Aim
As you are probably expecting, this isn’t the main skill needed to play Mercy. However, sometimes you happen to be cornered and have no other choice than to draw your pistol and go for the 1v1. Having good aiming skills can more often than you think make a difference between an alive and a dead Mercy.
Juggling beams
Another of the main skills required. As healing a full health teammate is useless, it is important to know who to heal, and when to heal. By knowing this you are preventing a lot of deaths rather than someone who would be “holding M1” as you claim Mercy players do. A good target prioritisation is what makes the difference between a good, an average and a bad Mercy.
GA management
This one goes in extention to the positionning, but instead of left right forward backward, GA allows to follow very different trajectories to reach a position it would not be possible to get in otherwise.
Also Mercy’s primary means of mobility, which means it is her only mean of self-defense. Knowing who you can fly to, when and how to bunnyhop is definitely at the core of Mercy’s gameplay.
Mercy has no means of self-defense, while Zen can just burst down a flanker.
I disgree. Lucio needs to be there to heal, while Mercy has to attach her beam to her target, which can put her in dangerous positions. Also, Mercy is a single healing character, and Lucio can heal multiple targets at once.
Alright. Moira needs to manage her ressource meter. However, she heals at a faster rate, which can be considered to be more forgiving therefore easier.
Also, Mercy may have her mobility tool disponible more often than Moira’s, but GA is certainly not a better mobility option than fade.
I mean, is Briggite’s combo even relevant at this point ? They’re so different characters.
How does Briggite heal a teammate ? By existing and pressing a button. She has that shield and gives armor. Mercy is, again, defenseless most of the time.
You asked for it.
[Citation needed]
As any ultimate in the game. What are you even trying to say here ?
I find this funny.
What is something almost uncounterable ?
If a counter exists, the ability is counterable.
If no counter exist, the ability is uncounterable.
There’s no middle-ground or subjectivity here.
And mass rez fell in the counterable category.
I mean Mercy’s like screaming “SHOT ME” when she rezes and is glowing like the sun. If you need all of this to find the ability counterable, I find this pitiful honestly.
Where ? How ? Do you consider saying “this is wrong” an argument.
More seriously.
I’m sorry, were those arguments hiden behind something ?
Because I’ve read this entire thread, yet I remember no argument coming from you.
Coming back to the original quote:
Where do you mention Mercy ?
Where did you ever say this was only applying to Mercy ?
Why are you twisting your own words to cover up for you lack of argumentation ?
The general wording of this entire paragraph -using letters instead of names which imply a general rule- do not indicate that this only applies to Mercy. If you wanted us to understand this, you should have worded it differently and clearly said that it was only about Mercy.
Man you look really obsessed with what you consider to be the only valuable skill.
You are delusional or you don’t understand the game or the term mechanical skill.
This is not mechanical skill. I suggest you google the term because you don’t understand what you are talking about.
What resources man? Stop making stuff up.
Zen himself has to aim to be effective. What kind of nonsense argument is that.
What exactly is being said that’s opposite? Mercy has been the be-all end-all support for now 11 seasons, the most consistent best single-target solo healer in the game. Easiest hero to play from the supports and likely easiest hero in the game. Bringing utility above all other supports up until this point. Majorly played among by 85% of the OW population. Not played by 15% of the population only for a season or two before becoming an absolute must-pick for an year.
You are literally making stuff up as you go and you are flat out wrong on virtually everything you say. You are also a star two bronze border private profile player so I sincerely doubt you were even there for original Mercy and consequent reworks.
Please stop talking nonsense, you are making a fool out of yourself for anyone that understands this game on a basic level. Saying that a hitscan DPS is easier than Mercy is just laughably wrong.
These statements are so blatantly wrong that I don’t even need to try to refute them.
I mean no offense but you are also a two star bronze border silver competitive Mercy one-trick. This isn’t rank shaming before you start false-reporting me. It’s an objective point if you are going to discuss balance and game sense. I sincerely doubt your ability and your understanding and knowledge of the game if you are in silver. Seriously… if soldier is just pew-pew to you than no comment mate.
Do you understand what mechanical skill is? If you don’t, look it up. Mercy requires no mechanical skill to play - this isn’t a holy book or stereotype, this is a simple observable fact. I mean come on man, you guys are getting ridiculous.
It’s literally the opposite. Zen is weak to flankers, Mercy is strong against flankers because of mobility.
Stop with the citation memes, it makes you guys look silly. Simple answer is Mercy requires no mechanical aim of any kind.
What do you find almost funny? Mass rez was literally almost uncounterable unless you had a lightning fast Widowmaker who could somehow one-shot Mercy before the player pressing Q which was so unrealistically unlikely you could almost say it was uncounterable. Not to mention, Mercy didn’t even need LoS for rez. So stop making stuff up, with those 2 stars I wonder if you were even there when Mercy had Mass Rez.
You don’t understand the game so I doubt you can understand my arguments.
It’s not the only skill in the game but it’s definitely a valuable skill to have.
All in all, please before you comment on balance or design, make sure you actually understand basic definitions. Get more experience in the game and get out of silver. This isn’t rank shaming you, don’t false report me. If you are in silver however this means you don’t understand fundamental basic principles about this game and both of you are saying things that are flat out wrong.
These are statements that the poster thinks are true, so I told him he is delusional or doesn’t understand what mechanical skill means. Context matters.
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