Unfun to play against: The valid yet controversial reason for changes to heroes

General Discussion
1

Everybody probably remembers Jeff Kaplans statement on Mass Rez: “It felt disheartening”. AKA “unfun to play against”.

When I first heard this statement, I thought it was ridiculous. What is fun to play against in this game? Nothing.

But after the addition of Doomfist and Brigitte, I truly understood what “unfun to play against” meant. There are just some things that are more unfun to play against.

Throwing balance aside, I despise Brigitte with a passion. Her main damage source is based around a CC and OHKO combo. The same goes for Doomfist.

Would you rather be killed by Brigittes one shot combo, or a McCree double dinking you? I’d pick the latter.

In my opinion, CC and OHKO abilities are the epitome of unfun in a video game, which is why Doomfist and Brigitte are my most hated heroes.

Video games are competitive but are also meant to be a source of enjoyment. The main reason why I’m starting to enjoy competitive less and less is because of the constant additions of one shots and CC mechanics.

If Overwatch continues down this trend of adding heroes with OHKO or CC mechanics, no matter how balanced the abilities are, the game will die because, and I think I can speak for all of the player base here, nobody likes rounding a corner and getting one shotted or stunned. In the words of Nateson: “If I wanted to get killed every time I rounded a corner, I’d play Dark Souls”.

So yes, reworking a core part of a heroes kit because it felt unfun to play against IS a valid reason.

BUT

Here is where the controversy comes in: If you remove/rework something that half the playerbase thinks it’s the worst thing to happen to the game and the other half of the playerbase loves, that’s where you run into trouble.

I’m pretty sure if the dev team were to remove or rework Brigitte/Doomfist, one half of the community would cry with joy, while the other half would be outraged. You can’t have that happening. The large majority of the playerbase needs to agree on what they find “unfun to play against” for the dev team to rework it. The same can go for Tracer or Genji, and just about any hero in the game really.

TLDR: Removing/reworking heroes because they are unfun to play against is a valid reason, but what’s controversial is what is and isn’t considered unfun by the community.

32 Likes
2

Who decides what’s unfun to play against? Mobility is the strongest thing in any FPS. Having grown up with FPS games where everyone runs at the same speed I find fighting against Genjis and Tracers the most unfun thing in this game. Do we get to remove/balance those abilities too because people find them unfun?

That’s the problem with balancing around “unfun”. It’s subjective. Stats are objective and tell whether heroes are underperforming or overperforming.

37 Likes
3

As a rule, any sort of disable is no fun in my book. This includes McCreee and Brigitte’s stuns, Ana’s sleep, Sombra’s EMP, etc These all just kinda kill the fun when you just can’t move or use your fun abilities. This isn’t because they’re OP but more because you can’t play or can’t play to your fully capacity. Not a huge issue but man is it boring when you’re stuck hiding when EMP’ed or just asleep.

1 Like
4

loosing is “unfun” its really subjective and some people will always have things to complain about, its not a good metric to balance around because then you are balancing around stuff that has clear counters but people in bronze call op because they refuse to play in a way that counters, like old sym was “unfun” for people in bronze because no one could aim and that let you duel anyone but that didn’t mean sym needed to be nerfed

Why is this a wiki? -Mamalamadoo
You should not make your opinion post a wiki, thats basically asking for it to be griefed :stuck_out_tongue: -Dr4gon97

edit: i have no idea what a wiki is so woops

6 Likes
5
  • Endless stuns
  • Having your abilities (ie, what makes the game fun to play) cancelled
  • c/c abilities that are difficult to target with because of the camera view, or
  • c/c abilities that are impossible to fight/defend against because you can’t see the opponent
3 Likes
6

I used to be a MOBA player, so I’m not that against CC abilities, hence I’m not really annoyed by heroes like Brigitte, Sombra, etc.

But one thing I do hate, is snipers. The number of times where I walk out and get insta-killed by a Widowmaker/Hanzo from 1000000000000000000000000000 feet away is just disgusting. I like being in the fight, I like having action around me, but snipers are just… no.

Another thing I hate are heroes with bullsh*tly high mobility. Basically Genji and Tracer. Having a man jumping around me constantly while throwing shurikens at my face is annoying. Having a Tracer constantly up my @ss is annoying. And there’s nothing I can do; especially when I’m playing Ana. I literally can’t run from them, since they can chase me easily. I just accept my fate and die.

35 Likes
7

You just proved my final point perfectly.

I don’t mind Tracer and Genji, but you do. I also hate snipers. You don’t mind CC, but I hate it.

What is and isn’t unfun is controversial.

3 Likes
8

Doesn’t prove your point though. It is controversial, yes…But how does being controversial make it valid? Like I said, who gets to be the ones who choose what’s unfun in this situation? If anything the fact it’s controversial makes it an invalid way to balance around.

3 Likes
9

Honestly, it’s all up to the devs.

They reworked Mercy Rez because they deemed it unfun, so maybe they’ll do the same to another hero in the future, who knows?

10

Honestly I think that was just an excuse. This is my speculation as I have no proof, but I think she was turning into something that was different from their “vision” of how they wanted the game so they reworked her (ie: That she was hiding and waiting to use her ult instead of actively participating). If they really wanted to balance her around unfun they’d have removed her resurrect entirely as people are still complaining about it. So they changed her and used the excuse that people found it unfun.

4 Likes
11

That’s definitely possible, yeah.

1 Like
12

I guess just the problem with balancing around removing unfun mechanics is just that their is no definitive definition of what is unfun because every player sees it differently. And I guess that stems from Overwatch being a FPS MOBA hybrid that attracts gamers from different backgrounds.

I see people complaining about stuff all the time that doesn’t bother me. Barriers, Knockbacks, One shots, Mobility heroes, Lock on beams. I’ve seen all those things complained about but I personally don’t see them as an issue. Yet, I hate stuns. With a passion. I want to be able to control my character, and anything that takes that away is frusterating. Dieing to a McCree that two taps me is naturally less frusterating than dieing to a McCree that camps a corner and flash + fans me. I’m also slightly annoyed by ‘get out of jail free’ abilities, namely Recall and Translocator.

And I think the reason I hate those things in particular is because of my background. I have never played a MOBA nor do I have any interest in doing so. I came from TF2, and before that had very limited experience in FPS games. I’m VERY used to getting backstabbed or sniped, so one shots don’t bother me. I’m used to easy aim characters like Pyro, so stuff like Mei and Sym don’t seem too absurd to me. I’m not used to easy to apply, spammable stuns. I’m used to them either requiring a skill shot, or being restricted to goofy taunt kills. I’m also not used to players being able to teleport across the map the second they are in danger. So I imagine that’s why certain things bother me more than others. As much as I’d like that crap removed, I’m just one player, and other people seem to like those mechanics.

So I guess the reason so many people find Overwatch unfun a lot of the time is because it tries to be so many different things at once. Which makes it much more likely that an individual player will find something that they don’t like about it. It tries to please everybody, but also makes it somewhat unfun for everybody in one way or another. So, I don’t think the ‘unfun’ will ever be gone from this game unless Blizzard one day decides on a single direction that they want to push the game in, which I doubt they will due to risk of alienating players.

6 Likes
13

Stun being unfun isn’t a subjective thing.

When you are stunned you are not playing the game, at all. It’s as if you don’t have your keyboard and mouse or controller.

It also is BS in a competitive game since it takes no skill to pull off.

People who think fighting against Genji/Tracer isn’t fun…lmao, at least you can still move and Genji/Tracer will never move faster than you can with your cross hair. Would you rather race against someone who you know is faster than you or race against whoever, but with you being paralyzed? Answer is obvious.

3 Likes
14

Because some people want an even match, and some people want to abuse their advantage as much as possible.

Realizing that these two different types of people exist is rather important for agame designer, Id say.

I don’t have a problem with doomfist, but I think Brigitte counters too many heroes. Shes also not much of an actual healer.

1 Like
15

Lmao!

Wait, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Explain how Brig has OHKO by which we mean something that can kill in one shot, like a Widow Headshot or DF’s Rocket Punch.

16

Bash - leftclick - E = dead tracer/genji. They have zero chance to do anything about it. This same can go up to Reinhardt who is stunned THROUGH HIS SHIELD when your team backs you up and focuses fire.

17

That’s a 3-HIt KO not 1-Hit.

Try again?

18

I really, really hope that Hero 28 has some kind of cleanse for allies.

Aside from a handful of invulnerability abilities, Zarya bubbles are the only form of anti-cc in the game. That’s not nearly enough anymore.

19

There is no difference between one hit KO and a three hit KO when the enemy has no chance to defend themselves from either. Normally you’d think the difference is tracer hitting recall to save themselves from the killing blow. In Brigittes case she can’t.

3 Likes
20

That’s like saying Tracer one hit KO when she single clips you.

1 Like