Tweaks to help Hero balance

[Gaetsn-1393]

Brig:

• stun duration: 1->0.6 seconds (for reference mccree stun 0.7 seconds
• reduce melee speed from 0.6 seconds per swing to 0.7 seconds per swing (10% slower) (reference rein swing speed 0.9 seconds per swing)

Hog

• reduced spread on primary fire
• Make left click hitscan

Soldier 76

• Reduce spread by half
• increase sprint speed from 8.33 m/s to 10 m/s (same as WB)

Doomfist

• reduce wall hit damage from 150 max to 100 max
• increase punch damage from 100 max to 150 max

Sym

• reduce charge rate on left click from 2 seconds per level, to 1.5 seconds per level
• reduce health on turrets from 30-15
• remove slow on turrets
• increase damage on turrets from 50 per second per turret to 60 per second per turret (from 150 dps total to 180 dps total)

Rein

• introduce “steadfast” passive: reduced distance with forced movement when shield is up (knock ups/backs, and pulls)

Mccree

• introduce “Armour piercing ammo” passive: shots ignore armour damage deduction
• decrease fan the hammer damage from 45 per shot, to 40 per shot

Pharah

• increase rocket travel speed from 35 m/s to 45 m/s
• decrease splash damage from 80-60 max (keep 40 min)
• increase barrage rocket speed from 28.5 m/s to 35 m/s

Hanzo

• remove ability to headshot with storm bow

Mei

• reduce frozen time from 1.5 second to 1 seconds
• reduce time to freeze from 1.5 seconds to 1.2 seconds
• reduce slow from 100% at freeze to 75% just before freeze
• decrease icicle cast time from 0.4 seconds to 0.2 seconds
• reduce icicle damage from 120 to 100
• allow anti-nade to affect mei in cryo freeze with reduced effects (from 100% reduced healing to 50% reduced healing)

Bastion

• Increase movement speed by 15%
• allow ability to self heal while transforming from sentry to recon and vice versa
• increase rate of fire on tank from 1.11 seconds per shot to 1 second per shot
• decrease sentry transform time from 1 second to 0.7 seconds

Reaper

• Remove ability to be shot during entire shadow step duration

Sombra

• reduce hack on abilities duration from 6 seconds to 5 second
• Allow sombra to hack brig passive
• increase damage of primary from 8 per shot to 10 per shot (160 dps to 200 dps)
• introduce stealth timer max 15 seconds

Orisa

• reduce HALT cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
• reduce movement speed penalty from primary from (what feels like) 60% to 30%

all shotgun heroes (reaper,hog,dva,DF)

• Remove RNG from spread

i didnt do torb becasue rework incoming

everyone else not on this list i feel is rather balanced or has their niche and are excellent at that niche (ex: junk and shield break and anti flank)

[Morghanit-2991]

I kind of like those

[Gaetsn-1393]

this, i think is exactly what the game needs. the more "harsh nerfs, are offset by some interesting buffs.

also i think this would make every hero viable. in one way or another.

[NanoByte-11180]

• reduce hack on abilities duration from 6 seconds to 5 second
• Allow sombra to hack brig passive
• increase damage of primary from 8 per shot to 10 per shot (160 dps to 200 dps)
• introduce stealth timer max 15 seconds

things to mention here as a sombra main

• increasing her damage even slightly will make her broken, leave it as it is.
  It doesn’t need any changes.

• her hack duration should also remain the same.

• introduce stealth to 20 seconds* with 75% speed bonus when cloaked (currently 50%)

[Gaetsn-1393]

compromise.
Damage increased to 8.5 damage (170 dps) (10 dps increase)
reduce hack duration on abilities ONLY from 6 seconds to 5 seconds
Introduce stealth timer 20 seconds 60 % movement speed increase.

[SchWiniX-2357]

Sombra:

@Gaetsn-1393

reduce hack on abilities duration from 6 seconds to 5 second

It already hard for the team do react on Hack with the current 6 seconds so No.

@Gaetsn-1393

Allow sombra to hack brig passive

Would make hack inconsistent it follows the rules like it should so No.

@Gaetsn-1393

increase damage of primary from 8 per shot to 10 per shot (160 dps to 200 dps)

Dmg buffs would make her Pro only problem even harder so No.

@Gaetsn-1393

introduce stealth timer max 15 seconds

Yes and no just bring it back to the 20s from before (so basically revert the 1.26 changes) this would solve her Pro only problem.

Read this for more: Sombra's (Balance) problem

Hog:

@Gaetsn-1393

Make left click hitscan

Wouldnt that make it feel pretty weird with the animation Idk?

Soldier:

@Gaetsn-1393

increase sprint speed from 8.33 m/s to 10 m/s (same as WB)

A little to fast IMO but well he needs some tweaking.

Doom:

@Gaetsn-1393

• reduce wall hit damage from 150 max to 100 max
• increase punch damage from 100 max to 150 max

Does he really need that I think he is quite fine how he is just fix his bugs

Symmetra

@Gaetsn-1393

remove slow on turrets

No?

Rein:

@Gaetsn-1393

introduce “steadfast” passive: reduced distance with forced movement when shield is up (knock ups/backs, and pulls)

Would that mean he gets slower pulled into grav or only halfway? and wouldn’t that be bad when he can’t shield his team?

Mcree:

@Gaetsn-1393

• introduce “Armour piercing ammo” passive: shots ignore armour damage deduction
• decrease fan the hammer damage from 45 per shot, to 40 per shot

He really doesn’t need that just rework his ult to be useful and he is fine.
Armor ignoring shots would not be healthy for the game

Hanzo:

@Gaetsn-1393

remove ability to headshot with storm bow

That or give it a big dmg falloff so he can’t kill you miles away with it.

Reaper:

@Gaetsn-1393

Remove ability to be shot during entire shadow step duration

Maybe a little to much just remove crits so Widow or Hanzo can’t instantly kill him anymore.

[Felhelen-1952]

This is a great set, lots of counter balancing. The brig nerf will catch you some flak from her mains, but honestly if this were a patch I guarantee half of the people who left the game in the past 6 months would come back.

[Gaetsn-1393]

Schwinix

dude.

do you stock me or something?

every time i mention changes to sombra you always find my post and criticize it

i get shes your main

but please take all the changes into account when you do criticize me. most of the nerfs are offset with buffs in other aspects the hero is lacking in.

also it seem, so far, you are the only one to outright criticize everything on my list. everyone else , so far, likes it, or has one discrepancy with one character.

all you do on any of my posts is criticize everything, try building onto it.

thank you for you thoughts. but i reject them all

[SchWiniX-2357]

do you stock me or something?

I replied to you twice I think I barely can remember you from yesterday. I have people I talk way more too and disagree way more with on these forums but I’m on a lot so you will see me a lot get used to it :P.

every time i mention changes to sombra you always find my post and criticize it

Well, I’m on this Forum’s for 2 things

1. Balance (Yes mostly Sombra’s Balance but overall balance too)

2. Sombra Bugs I search find and Post them.

i get shes your main

Yes.

but please take all the changes into account when you do criticize me. most of the nerfs are offset with buffs in other aspects the hero is lacking in.

I did just that I took ideas and said whenever I disagree and whenever I did not.

also it seem, so far, you are the only one to outright criticize everything on my list. everyone else , so far, likes it, or has one discrepancy with one character.

So far with the 8 post’s in this thread 2 agreed but did not go into detail and 2 disagreed in some areas (Including me) and the rest if from you.

all you do on any of my posts is criticize everything, try building onto it.

Criticizing is part of a good discussion if no one criticizing your idea’s they would be in the game a long time ago learn to live with people that don’t agree with everything you say.

Even I did not disagree with everything just with what I pointed out.

thank you for you thoughts. but i reject them all

You should because its my fair and outright opinion if you don’t even read them you should not start such a discussion

All together no I don’t stock you just because we had a discussion once about how Sombra’s Hack works and I’m here now (In which I felt insulted by you if I remember correctly btw.) Criticizing is naturall if two indivituals have diffrent opinions and you will see that alot more and alot worse. I did never interact with you toxic or insulted you in anyway so I don’t understand your argument right now?

[Gaetsn-1393]

i just read you post on the Sombra (balance) problem.

All you did was buff her in nearly everyway when, in high ranks, and yes the pro scene, she is incredibly overpowered.

You state that the reason why she is so strong is because of her infinite stealth and complete gloss over the fact that hack is the strongest CC in the game.

infinite stealth is not the problem at all. its annoying, but so is anti-nade.

Hack is the reason why she is so strong. the inablilty to use and abilities for 6 seconds in incredibly strong.

you said that it doesnt need to be reduced. because

It already hard for the team do react on Hack with the current 6 seconds

This wouldnt be an issue if you used voice chat and actually contributed to the team. instead of flaming them, or getting upset when they dont react to a hack you didnt tell them about.

The whole point of sombra is to a team player and play maker. She cant perform at her best without team coordination. yet another reason why she is op in the pro scene.

im not going to get into this conversation about hacking brigs passive with you again because its been beaten into a bloody pulp with no constructive outcome.

The damage buff the you claim

would make her Pro only problem even harder

wouldnt occur as, its not in addition to hack. agaisn your not taking the entirety of the changes when thinking about this. also, if you read in the comments i compromised with someone who criticized the sombra changes.

that is called CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICIZISM. something that seems to be a foreign concept to you.

Criticizing is part of a good discussion

criticizing for the sake of criticizing fixes nothing. it creates a toxic environment.

if you search for and post bugs on sombra, then stick to the bugs forum

and no offence but i would rather take the opinion of a pro, who has been playing the game longer then you, at a high degree then you, and has a better understanding of the game then you, then take the opinion of someone who criticizes every suggestion to sombra that isnt there own.

you even said yourself that you dont play alot of ranked. so i dont think you really understand the full gravity of how sombra can perfom in a coordinated environment.

You said that sombra is “fine” in GM when she has a 55% winrate. the 5th highest at that level with a pickrate above 1.5%

again, every pro, Surefour, Zachareee, Sinatraa, Seagull, Muma, Literally everyone that is in the OWL (the highest level of pro play) calls her OP.

but i guess because you dont think that it isnt the fact.

and she has more bugs then DF??? kappa right?

[SchWiniX-2357]

Okey here I go again.

@Gaetsn-1393

All you did was buff her in nearly everyway when, in high ranks, and yes the pro scene, she is incredibly overpowered.

She is good but not overpowered the point of my Post was to change that.

I nerfed her by removing 1.26 and buffed her with increased base movement speed.
The visuals are a mere QoL change that should have been made long ago.

@Gaetsn-1393

You state that the reason why she is so strong is because of her infinite stealth and complete gloss over the fact that hack is the strongest CC in the game.

Yes, its a strong CC but one question: Why wasn’t she strong before 1.26 and just after Hack did not change one bit?

@Gaetsn-1393

infinite stealth is not the problem at all. its annoying, but so is anti-nade.

It is in Pro play. Scouting is only strong there where the teamplay is extremely good thanks to a lot of practise together. That is not possible on Ladder.

In ladder it only made her slower.

@Gaetsn-1393

Hack is the reason why she is so strong. the inablilty to use and abilities for 6 seconds in incredibly strong.

No, it’s not. Hack is merely annoying to the ones that get hard countered by it.

@Gaetsn-1393

This wouldnt be an issue if you used voice chat and actually contributed to the team.

I’m in voice even in QP but that does not fix the problem that the team has only 6s to kill the target that means hearing it finding it and killing it 6s.

@Gaetsn-1393

instead of flaming them, or getting upset when they dont react to a hack you didnt tell them about.

Why do you instantly think I do not? don’t just assume things out of the blue.

If one teammate isn’t in voice chat you loose as good as 1/6 of you’re strength as Sombra.

@Gaetsn-1393

The whole point of sombra is to a team player and play maker. She cant perform at her best without team coordination. yet another reason why she is op in the pro scene.

Yes I got over that already but that bring the same question as before: Why wasn’t She strong before 1.26?

@Gaetsn-1393

im not going to get into this conversation about hacking brigs passive with you again because its been beaten into a bloody pulp with no constructive outcome.

The only thing that happened was that you did not find any counterargument and started insulting me… You just ignored all my points so you’re view does not get obstructed…

@Gaetsn-1393

wouldnt occur as, its not in addition to hack. agaisn your not taking the entirety of the changes when thinking about this. also, if you read in the comments i compromised with someone who criticized the sombra changes.

I did but his and my point still stay’s Sombra need way more Tracking than any other Hero the Pro’s that mastered that Tracking can put out way more dmg as we on ladder which have problems with it so increasing her DMG would make her strong in Pro then it would on Ladder.

@Gaetsn-1393

criticizing for the sake of criticizing fixes nothing. it creates a toxic environment.

???
???
???
I didnt do that I took your Idea and criticized it based on my Opinion and Knowleght I criticized it because I did not agree whats totaly normal…

@Gaetsn-1393

if you search for and post bugs on sombra, then stick to the bugs forum

I’m active there I have a post:

Even more Sombra Bugs in 1.26/1.27/1.28 [With Video's]

Patch 1.26 Bug 1: another Translocator Spinning/Beyblade bug. So today I encountered 2 TL Beyblade bugs a normal one that appears on the first TL you throw after you died: So the new one appears after the game just started (without dying basically): I did some testing on these and I figured out why it happened. So normal TL Beyblade but happens when you try to use TL shortly before you die (so it starts translocating you but you die before it finishes) The next Translocator you use …

But I’m also here because of the balance how I said:

@SchWiniX-2357

Balance (Yes mostly Sombra’s Balance but overall balance too)

@Gaetsn-1393

and no offence but i would rather take the opinion of a pro, who has been playing the game longer then you, at a high degree then you, and has a better understanding of the game then you, then take the opinion of someone who criticizes every suggestion to sombra that isnt there own.

This pro also called Winston, Doomfist and Ana OP its clear that he was overdoing it on purpes…

@Gaetsn-1393

you even said yourself that you dont play alot of ranked. so i dont think you really understand the full gravity of how sombra can perfom in a coordinated environment.

Not alot. Not that I did not I play Sombra over 250h now and since launch and always could keep up with eveything that happens to her. Also I’m analizing proplay since we have it in Overwatch. I can say for myself that I clearly understand what and how Sombra works in Pro play.

@Gaetsn-1393

again, every pro, Surefour, Zachareee, Sinatraa, Seagull, Muma, Literally everyone that is in the OWL (the highest level of pro play) calls her OP.

They call her Strong because of what I mention in my post not because of Hack tho.

@Gaetsn-1393

but i guess because you dont think that it isnt the fact.

I don’t quite understand you’re points what you change on Sombra would make her much Stronger then my suggsetions would…
All what your changes would do would make her way stronger at Pro level but would make her about the same on Ladder.

Why do you try to buff her that way?

@Gaetsn-1393

and she has more bugs then DF??? kappa right?

She does. Cut and try the post I linked above shows you 30 I found since 1.26 but it does by far not include all of her bugs esspazialy the out of map gliches she has on litterly any map multiple.

Then all the diffrent Hack Los bugs which I include 2 or 3 I think.

She is by FAR the most bugged Hero I know the 40+ bug video of doom but even there the bug with Sombra is not a Doom bug its a Los bug of Sombra.

One other thing I don’t understand:
You say you would trust Pro’s more then me when they say she is Overpowered and I say she is just Strong in Pro play but then you go on and buff her way harder then I do?

[Gaetsn-1393]

you are not contributing to the original post. if you continue to veer off the topic of the original post then i will have to flag you comments as spam, or trolling.

if you dont have anything to build on the idea, then please leave the post.

Criticizing for the sake of criticizing is promoting a toxic environment. if you must criticize given a reason to your criticism and allow people to rebut your criticism or you will be flagged.

Thank you and have a nice day

[SchWiniX-2357]

you are not contributing to the original post. if you continue to veer off the topic of the original post then i will have to flag you comments as spam, or trolling.

Do so I’m continuing the discussion you started after I shared my Opinion on it that isn’t against the CoC (you would now that if you read them) so I’m saved.

if you dont have anything to build on the idea, then please leave the post.

I did you ignored it and called be a stocker…

Criticizing for the sake of criticizing is promoting a toxic environment. if you must criticize given a reason to your criticism and allow people to rebut your criticism or you will be flagged.

I did whatever you are trying to do right now is:

Criticizing for the sake of criticizing is promoting a toxic environment.

(btw I never interacted to you in a toxic or insulting way the only one that did was you.)

Thank you and have a nice day

Thank you and you too.
Let this not change you’re opinion of any discussion we may have in the further and lets keep on Facts and the right to have an Opinion to something.

But if you can’t take a normal opinion based Criticizing you may leave because you will meet people that will be Toxic and will start insulting if you can’t handly even me (I’m neither Toxic nor do I Criticizing for the sake of criticizing how you call it)

Point stays don’t start a Discussion if you can’t have people disagreeing with you.

[Gaetsn-1393]

how bout, you dont go on any of my posts, and i wont go on any posts of yours.

leave me alone, and ill leave you alone.

(just a tip, work on your english, or your typing. it seems that you are very young, or haven’t been speaking english very long and it is a little hard to understand the points your trying to make.)

[SchWiniX-2357]

how bout, you dont go on any of my posts, and i wont go on any posts of yours.

Go on my post if you want share your opinion if you want I will not ignore it but I will take it and try to explain you why I disagree.
I will do the same when I See you’re Post

I will not just ignore anything you say so should you not just ignore anything I say.

(just a tip, work on your english, or your typing. it seems that you are very young, or haven’t been speaking english very long and it is a little hard to understand the points your trying to make.)

I have dyslexia that’s why my English spelling isn’t that great I did go into curses when I was a Kid So if I’m not fully concentrating onto typing everything correct (Or I’m doing something else at the same time as I do right now I’m Drawing) and Grammarly can take me only so far I hope you can understand that.

Added to that I’m German so I only speak english about 11/17 years in which I only really started to love and read English more in the Last 3 years.

[SasakiKojiro-1452]

A lot of these I agree with. Your Symmetra ideas ABSOLUTELY not.

[Gaetsn-1393]

im sorry but as its you grammer that is the issue, not you spelling, dyslexia isnt an excuse. being german makes sense.

but as neither of us can prove or disprove any of these claims then both posts are irrelevent. and i apologize for making an irrelevent post.

the reason why i suggested that we leave each other alone, is because everytime you commnet on one of my posts is dissolves into an off-topic argument. this is constructive to anything related to the post and shouldnt happen.

I have never commented on any of your post, mostly because i have things to do and i dont spend all day on the forums and miss it.

i will not post on anything you have to say. and i would ask you to respect my wishes and do the same.

[SchWiniX-2357]

the reason why i suggested that we leave each other alone, is because everytime you commnet on one of my posts is dissolves into an off-topic argument. this is constructive to anything related to the post and shouldnt happen

That’s why I said this should not change our views on the further discussion normally if we would have continued on my first reply we would never have this off-topic discussion.

I have never commented on any of your post, mostly because i have things to do and i dont spend all day on the forums and miss it.

I too I have work I draw and play but I also have fun being in the Forum’s and Discuss things about the game I love.

i will not post on anything you have to say. and i would ask you to respect my wishes and do the same

I will about now that was the last thing I wanted to say so I will take my leave thanks for staying mostly friendly I respect you for that there are not a lot of people that can do that.

[Gaetsn-1393]

if not then please tell me why. i am open to your opinion if you are willing to explain your reasoning.

Criticizing for the sake of criticism isn’t constructive.

[Cerburus437-1424]

• reduce health on turrets from 30-15
• remove slow on turrets
• increase damage on turrets from 50 per second per turret to 60 per second per turret (from 150 dps total to 180 dps total)

So make them essentially as flimsy as old turrets plus no slow in exchange for a turret nest equaling an old turret nest in terms of dps and 1 second less charge time assuming 100% accuracy? No.