Tribalism. It’s worse now

[Misguided-1468]

Really only supports are really into that tribal crap. Tanks to a lesser extent. DPS the least

Read what you just wrote. Stop and think. This kind of thinking, that all players of a given group are the same is what tribalism is all about.

[Natorian-1907]

If you think this, then blame Blizzard.

I do, almost completely. They have pushed the agenda we see play out on the forums. I am also smart enough to wade through the bovine excrement to see how it effects the players on a micro level.

We have shattered discourse on the forums because of a few issues that Blizzard doesn’t tackle very well.

1. Unapologetic balancing.

Blizzard used to make changes and they would straight up tell people “this is what we want to see from our game, love it or leave it.” This leaves no room for people to complain as they are aware that Blizzard doesn’t care, because they don’t.

2. Heavy handed balancing always ends up affecting Tank and Support rosters the most.

Blizzard makes changes based on a perception that people want Overwatch to be fast paced. Blizzard uses Overwatch League to accredit this mentality. Overwatch League is and will always be a failure. There is a reason for this and Blizzard can’t figure out why.

3. The most illogical people on the forums generally live in the DPS player pool.

I want to see changes in all roles. I see things like Bastion being down right broken and I know that this is wrong. DPS players, from what I have seen, only care about where their favorite hero stands at any given time. They tend to not see the game as a team game, and want to be the DPS superstar in every round they are a part of.

Blame the Devs as they have fostered this tribalism

I see most of this as a developer issue. Mainly the one where DPS players can complain and they see actual evidence of the developers bending to their will.

[EpsilonKey14-1509]

DPS hate is justified though. I play DPS and the amount of complaining just to make Supports easy to kill with no compensation is toxic. That does a number to other players psychology and overall commitment to the community. You can’t sit up here and try to trash another gamers experience in expense of your own and expect that to ever be welcomed.

Really only supports are really into that tribal crap. Tanks to a lesser extent. DPS the least

Even then I think it’s mostly Mercy mains, Moira mains, Brigitte mains (the low skill ones).

When Blizzard uses the heavy hand to come down on any specific role, most of the time within 2-3 patches of one another, it tends to piss that role off. You would know, but the DPS players haven’t experienced this in the game yet, so its not surprising you feel this way.

You guys have all added towards the tribalistic mindset and really haven’t helped proved any of your arguments, if anything all you’ve done is made a shining example of what OP was talking about.

[DPS1Trick-1589]

Based on what metric?
Your own assessment?

Yes

This statement in and of itself reeks with a tribal approach. It is you, a high skill super hero, versus them, the low skill drool cup players. But ya, the supports are to blame.

It’s not tribal because not all support mains are like that, nor are all low skill hero mains. (Reaper, Junkrat)

When Blizzard uses the heavy hand to come down on any specific role, most of the time within 2-3 patches of one another, it tends to piss that role off. You would know, but the DPS players haven’t experienced this in the game yet, so its not surprising you feel this way.

That doesn’t matter. It’s not the fault of dps.

And dps hasn’t experienced that because most dps are already hot garbage.

[Natorian-1907]

@EpsilonKey14-1509

You guys have all added towards the tribalistic mindset and really haven’t helped proved any of your arguments

The difference is, I can back up my claim with evidence from web sites that track the balance patches from the beginning of the game until now.

Overwatch Patch Notes

I can use these pieces of information to graph out each balance shift per hero or per role. I have the information available to me to make the claim I made.

@Natorian-1907

You would know, but the DPS players haven’t experienced this in the game yet, so its not surprising you feel this way.

DPS1Trick has no such evidence.

[Hyphen-21921]

@Misguided-1468

Read what you just wrote. Stop and think. This kind of thinking, that all players of a given group are the same is what tribalism is all about.

Sure generalizing is bad, but also denying reality is worse mate. You should agree with that and recognize the facts:
Pointing at a flaw very common in a certain crowd doesnt imply that ALL individuals of that crowd are part of the problem.

While you are at it (and pretty much anyone else in this forum), you should read about “DPS blaming”, its SO PREVALENT that even a Developer had to address it on their official posts:

@ScottMercer

Why are damage role players getting unfairly blamed for losses?

Now that the team composition is not an easy reason to blame for a team’s loss, I’ve seen community feedback and even players in my own games feel that they’re losing because no one on the enemy team is dying. They then blame the players in the damage role. Everybody should always remember that Overwatch is a team game, and everyone is responsible for the team’s success. Losing a game doesn’t mean that your team necessarily played particularly poorly, it might just mean that the other team played particularly well that game. Winning or losing often comes down to who made one more big play.

If you’re trying to improve your level of play over time, blaming a teammate for a loss doesn’t help. Instead ask yourself if there is a lesson you can take away from the match (win or loss) that will help you improve in the next one. Similarly, before a game starts think about what aspect of the game you can work towards improving.

Another fact for you and everyone here:
The lack of Scoreboards, while not affecting “Blaming games” that much, it helps specially Tanks and Supports “hiding” their performance/mistakes since we cant see stats like “healing received” but we can see how “nothing is dying” and blame DPS right away.

Again, bringing the heat -
It is what it is

[Natorian-1907]

@DPS1Trick-1589

Yes

Your assessment is incorrect.

I go back to the fact that this web site

Overwatch Patch Notes

has all of the pertinent information to clarify why support and tank players tend to group together on the forums. Blizzard has been far more unforgiving to those roles. The second Blizzard makes the same sweeping changes to the DPS roster you would see the same thing happen. This leads to the question of why DPS players are on the forums at all. If their role is altered the least, then what do they have to complain about? Yet they are still here.

@DPS1Trick-1589

It’s not tribal because not all support mains are like that, nor are all low skill hero mains.

You have no way of knowing this, and you are not the subject matter expert in what heroes take skill or not.

@DPS1Trick-1589

That doesn’t matter. It’s not the fault of dps.

I wasn’t specifically finger pointing. It is the fault of all roles, but mostly the fault of Blizzard.

@DPS1Trick-1589

And dps hasn’t experienced that because most dps are already hot garbage.

What a load of ____.

[Safeguard-11360]

I remember when I enjoyed Overwatch

Then they gutted Sombra with that rework

[EpsilonKey14-1509]

The difference is, I can back up my claim with evidence from web sites that track the balance patches from the beginning of the game until now.

You’re completely missing the point.

It’s not about whether or not you can prove your argument with ‘facts’ or ‘statistics’.

It’s about dismissing them and their arguments because they play ‘x hero’ or come from ‘x category’, while simultaneously generalizing them and consistently viewing them in the negative.

Note: This thread didn’t devolve into arguing up until you three came on here and started bashing the other side, unprompted.

[Natorian-1907]

you should read about “DPS blaming”, its SO PREVALENT that even a Developer had to address it on their official posts:

All that orange text exist to give Overwatch players a nice warm hug so they can forget about the evil man that got mad at them.

This is what I meant by;

Unapologetic balancing.

Blizzard so often now wants to coddle people no matter what role they play. In that blurb Blizzard wanted the DPS to “feel better” about themselves instead of challenging them with being better.

[Natorian-1907]

Note: This thread didn’t devolve into arguing up until you three came on here and started bashing the other side, unprompted.

My original post was about how Blizzard is the main culprit, and there are a multitude of players who play the blame game. The basis of what I said was, how do you expect players to stop doing it, when Blizzard does this very thing?

I know what camp I am in. i want all roles to change a bit for the betterment of the game. However, I will not let other people argue that their role is somehow “the chosen role” and its everyone else who is wrong.

Note: Facts do matter by the way.

[Misguided-1468]

Pointing at a flaw very common in a certain crowd doesnt imply that ALL individuals of that crowd are part of the problem.

I disagree. It does. Words matter. You can laugh it off and say it’s silly to use a qualifier like “some” every time, but the fact this is so rarely done helps create the environment we are talking about.

[Hyphen-21921]

All that orange text exist to give Overwatch players a nice warm hug so they can forget about the evil man that got mad at them.

You missed the mark and the meaning of that text by around 3 footbal stadiums mate. No offense but … W O O S H

Blizzard so often now wants to coddle people no matter what role they play. In that blurb Blizzard wanted the DPS to “feel better” about themselves instead of challenging them with being better.

If you actually think Game Balancing has absolutely anything to do with Tribalism and the blaming game, you are way way way way further away than I thought.

But ok

I disagree. It does. Words matter. You can laugh it off and say it’s silly to use a qualifier like “some” every time, but the fact this is so rarely done helps create the environment we are talking about.

It doesnt. Just like you pointed out, words matter.
Making up context and implying things that are not explicit in a statement for the sake of “being offended” does not help anyone.

But of course some people are going to do their own reading on things and misquote or misinterpret things on purpose for other goals.

And guess what mate, no matter what you say, or how specific you are, that is not changing. Again, it is what it is

[Pharahdise-1487]

The fact that I thought this said tr1bbing i-

[DPS1Trick-1589]

@Natorian-1907

Your assessment is incorrect.

I disagree.

@Natorian-1907

I go back to the fact that this web site
Overwatch 2 - Patch Notes
has all of the pertinent information to clarify why support and tank players tend to group together on the forums. Blizzard has been far more unforgiving to those roles. The second Blizzard makes the same sweeping changes to the DPS roster you would see the same thing happen. This leads to the question of why DPS players are on the forums at all. If their role is altered the least, then what do they have to complain about? Yet they are still here.

If damage creep is an actual problem then we’d see the same thing.

If dps has defined literally every meta since day 1, then dps would get unforgiving nerfs.

@Natorian-1907

You have no way of knowing this, and you are not the subject matter expert in what heroes take skill or not.

Regardless, calling out specific heroes is not being “tribal”.

Scapegoating Tracer/Genji for Brigitte nerf is fine. It’s not tribal.

Scapegoating the entire dps for tank or support nerf. That’s tribalism.

@Natorian-1907

What a load of ____.

By that I mean they don’t define the meta like tanks and supports.

Although some really are hot garbage.

[McMercee-1378]

No, but you need a prerequisite understanding before starting any debates. Talking without experiencing it first hand is just useless talk, even a non OW player can copy and paste whatever topic online without understanding a thing about OW balance.

[Saber-22958]

Flex players rise up!

Newsflash, we don’t exist anymore

If I Q for all 3 roles I always tank

If I Q for just support and dps I always support.

If I Q for dps I go do my laundry.

[Saber-22958]

of course it will get tons of likes because people here hate DPS for some illogical reason.

Have the dps stopped using “Mercy main” as an insult yet or is it still going?

[Natorian-1907]

You missed the mark

Apologies, I forgot how attempting to discuss anything with you is pointless. There is no discussion to be had, much like when I have to explain something to my youngest daughter. Just remember, chew before you swallow.

[Saber-22958]

Any Moira topic is literally boiled

every moira topic is made “she is ez mode, git gud” to begin with.