Torb is an oddly over nerfed hero

General Discussion
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So torb kind of has been nerfed quite a bit in recent months.

Starting with the changes to how armor handled burst damage. Prior even with 1 point of armor it would add that 30% reduction to even a hanzo head shot. Now it will only reduce a portion of that damage up to the amount of armor you have.

For tanks this isn’t much a big deal, as they will naturally have over a 100 + armor attached to them. To easily absorb that first few chunks of burst damage.

Be it on hereos such as torb or brig that only have a small chunk of armor in their hp. It’s no longer really serving it’s original purpose.

For example torb with 50 armor, against a mei head shot. use to only take 105 dmg. Now he will take 135. damage.

That doesn’t seem like much But it does matter quite a bit when it comes to large burst of damage coming from say a sniper or from a damage boosted source.

Were talking about taking 210 dmg from a widow head shot to a 285.

Then we have the series of nerfs that happened with his turret.

losing 25 hp, 12 damage a second on his turret, and a longer cooldown to boot (10 to 12 seconds).

in return he got 6 ammo refill while using overload and a slightly tighter spread on his shotgun. Which case are both rather situational buffs that can’t be applied to every situation, like the general consistent long range damage you could get off with the turret.

It also makes it a lot easier for flankers and flyers to just ignore the turret outright. While also making it a decent bit easier to kill. And punish the torb while it’s down.

The next nerf comes in the form of sombra, that can now safely hack a turret while invis without setting it off.

Which could be done if you waited for the turret to pick a target prior to hacking it. Be it now you can’t set up the turret specifically as a counter measure to her. As she can always safely hack it prior to any push.

And cycle back into her team when needed. Were as before you could use the turret to disrupt the sombra from ever hacking anyone in the back line. And placed far enough away to avoid an EMP. Be it now kind can’t leave it far away now in fret of sombra doing a number to it when your not looking.

Then came the recent winston tesla changes that allowed him to ignore armor,

Which means he can chew through torbs armor health section in less then a second, instead of taking a second and a quarter to do so.

Not saying torb is a bad hero at the moment, he did have some power shifted into his primary fire latter on. Be it that he kind of lost his niche as being an almost off tank like peel dps.

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I would LOVE it if he got nerfed into being a skillful hero😁

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I mean all his damage is in his gun at the moment, tide to projectiles.

if your not pinging heads back to back with him, you kind of don’t have much offer another dps can provide you.

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Torb is one of those heroes that has no skill in his kit, so he doesn’t deserve to be any better.

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Ah i see you died to the least damaging DPS tool in game.

But joking aside, you do need to master his gun, if you actually want to be effective with him.

On another note, TF2 engineer has a significantly stronger turret. That shoots missiles and has a considerably higher health pull that can be healed from range or given damage reduction, while letting you have manual control over its target.

Yet you don’t see people calling him no skill.

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Who sheds tears for the Junkrat mains?
The world is deaf to his anguish
Why no love for the Bastion’s fame?
They say he smells like dead fish

And where oh where is the sympathy
For the Torbs and Syms,
There’s no empathy
For the heroes
The heroes of cancer commmps
The bull-crap cancer commmps

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He just major buff not to long ago.

but i’m right their for sym, she is just worse hanzo at the moment.

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I’m just sayin’ if you want sympathy for Torb, Sym, Junk, Bastion and probably Reaper and Pharah… you probably won’t find much outside of those who main them.

As a Tracer main, Torb and Sym in particular could be deleted from the game and I’d be thrilled with it. Maybe Illari too - but perhaps I just begrudge the need to kill deployables.

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And this is why we don’t let mains balance the game.

Tools purposely designed to manage certian playstyles are allowed to exist, you can still play through a torb/sym and win games.

But they do force you to play around them, and not freely do what you want.

it should still be a fair fight, like dash in force him to use his over heal. Dash out rewind while he curns his cooldown come back in when he is out of defensive resources.

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It’s not that hard of a gun to use and it does the same damage as Cree with a faster fire rate.

Exactly.

I don’t think Torb deserves to be good, and he already is. If he traded places with Junkrat on the tier list, I would consider that to be fair.

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Not exaclty no it is a slow projectile, that people that know your shooting at them can walk side to side to avoid at mid to long ish ranges.

It’s not exactly comparable to cassidy’s hitscan. Especially if your dealing with an echo or Pharah. Instead of the grounded tracer or genji.

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That spams high damage. It’s easier and more consistent than Hanzo.

And your turret deals with flight for you. It zones them out of the air until the turret breaks.

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No it’s not, Hanzo has a considerably higher projectile speed.

And can instantly kill people with one shot.

Torbs shots are comparable to the speed of the old pre-buffed/reworked hanzo.

But not the 110ms the arrows move at the moment.

torbs at 70ms. And still has to deal with the gravity pulling shots down and the like.

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And Torb has double the hitbox with a faster fire rate. He can spam someone down easier than Hanzo. And with Hanzo, if you get close he has to headshot you to live. Torb’s secondary is straight up a better version of Reaper’s shotguns.

There is no range where Torb’s weapon relies on actual skillshots. Far away, it’s spam. Close up, it’s shotgun. I’d agree he takes mechanical skill if his shotgun wasn’t a thing.

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Spam does not equal accuracy, and is not gureented damage.

Also like you mostly want to take your time with his shots to make your they land as not burn through all your ammo before something dies.

and no his hurtboxes on the spikes are not that large. They are relatively small hitboxes.

Like people think hanzo arrows are gaint cylinders or something, when in reality like their the size of genji’s shurikens, torbs shots are not any larger.

So outside of near point blank engagements with the enemy tank you not piling in the damage you think you are.

He has a short and fat hitbox making him rather easy to head shot, and spam projectiles into.

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And hanzo can one shot at any distance.

Quite sure reaper is hitscan and torb ia projectile…:thinking:

On top of reaper legit being easier for me personally he also life steals, so dunno about torn being better than reaper close quarters. Bad? Nope, but torn is definitely worse.

Success always relies on skill. There is not such thing as “just spam” and winning. Shooting the right angle is a skill. Landing shots is a skill. Not everyone is just “lucky”.

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Small correction here. Winston will normally take about 7 seconds to kill Torbjorn when he’s armor. Because he now ignores armor, it takes about 5 to 6 seconds to make the kill. The Tesla Cannon change didn’t really impact Torbjorn that much, comparatively. It’s just healing through armored health that’s had a bigger impact.

The only mechanically challenging Defense-role heroes are Widowmaker and Hanzo. More Hanzo, than Widowmaker besides.

For years, they were seemingly okay with Torbjorn’s turret’s damage and general gameplay until OW2. His basic gunplay has remained virtually unchanged until recent when they decided to up the fire rate of his primary, then revert that, because they didn’t realize how powerful it was.

And let’s be clear, old turret was only really useful against a handful of flanking Damage-role heroes. For Soldier, Pharah, Reaper, Echo and a few others; the turret was largely ineffective. And against Tanks, it really stood no chance.

But if you were Tracer, or Cassidy or Genji, you could have a tough time trying to eliminate it. Turret took four rounds of ammo to kill, or averaging 4 seconds. That was enough to make a kill on most Damage-role heroes. Those that could outrange it, had no problems, and Soldier had to burn a few cooldowns to bring it down, but it was possible.

Now turret is a lot less lethal, but it hasn’t hurt Torb’s win rate all that much. I think Blizzard was hoping to bring Torbjorn’s win rate down to be comparable with other Damage-role heroes because of the outlying trends showing up with him and Symmetra. But it really just indicated just how poor the general mechanics of the Damage-role is in learning to play them.

A holdover of the original design from Overwatch’s initial launch state. Offense vs. Defense, and Defense vs. Offense with Supports and Tanks supporting the two as generalists and wild cards.

It’s actually the same fire rate, just with a travel time and three times the ammo.

70 meters per second, actually makes it one of the faster traveling projectiles in the game.

FWIW, Hanzo’s arrows do travel faster (now), but don’t have the same arc than Torb’s does. Moreover, Hanzo’s arc is harder to trace than Torbjorn’s. Torbjorn has three times the ammo, and he is built around sustained fire and damage compared to Hanzo’s more angled burst.

Thanks to Torbjorn’s faster fire rate and larger ammo supply, Torbjorn will fire off 4 projectiles (250 damage) faster than Hanzo will do 2 (240 damage). Torbjorn also isn’t crit reliant as Hanzo is, either.

You are, Torb’s turret is hitscan and follows his primary’s target.

But you’re also right that he’s an easy to hit and kill target; that’s why he has Overload.

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Why thank you for that, be it a second is still a lot of time saved. That’s 60 extra damage you can pump else ware before a reload.

So soldier yes, but for echo and pharah given that you placed your turret defensively around the back of your team. Will have to be in the open to have LOS to the turrets and take time tp pump resources into it to destroy it. if not burning cooldowns in echo’s case.

you can very much pump damage back into in the mean time.

It’s not so much a tool to kill them, but to soften them up while taking aggro while you shoot back at them.

Or catch them off gaurd when someone like ashe headshots them and leaves them in range for the turret to finish them off.

It’s kind of why that 12 damage a second mattered, as it played around some critical breakpoints.

Especially on the flankers like tracer / genji / and sombra pre work.

you can get cross fire going on any of them, forcing out cooldowns early. Or finishing off targets that got a good shot gun round into the chest.

And prevent sombra’s from getting the jump on people with hack.

eh keep in mind hanzo has his own do cooldown that does a lot of quick burst damage.

Even then getting a kill in one shot before healing/ protections tools can be applied or people can shoot back at you is a big deal.

As a lot of torbs ability to follow up can be stopped by a DM/barriers/bubbles and more prior to the second shot landing if it hits in the first place do to people reacting to getting shot.

but their are benefits to both.

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It’s pretty much guaranteed with minimal aim.

They are literally double the size of Hanzo’s arrows. This is not hyperbole, it is fact. Look it up.

And he has a ton of health with a tanking ability, with better cqc than Reaper and easier long range combat than Hanzo.

Hanzo actually has to aim his arrows well, and they’re less consistent and smaller.

Dumb take. Torb is effectively also hitscan at close range, in the same way that Sojourn is.

Reaper’s life steal is a joke. I wish they’d add a notification when he saves himself with it just so people that make this argument understand just how little it does.

Yeah, and that’s why Torb doesn’t deserve to be easier than them while competing or straight up outperforming them.

I always thought it was faster, but even so, it’s still the same amount of damage with more ammo. The only advantage Cree has is being hitscan, but that becomes less and less of one when we’re factoring in other things like health and clip size.

Literally all of this.

And all of this.

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No it’s not. you have to predict where the enemy is going to be prior to firing the shot. And if the enemy takes a turn then you are not landing it plain and simple. It has way to much travel time to actually hit consistently with just spam.

still small now, twice the size of a golf ball is still smaller then a base ball.

He is not better then reaper, I use to joke that a while back. Reaper will tear you a new one if you get close. His spread is tighter and your fat head is right dead center of his cross hair.