Top 500 tank player swaps 14 times in one match. Even when he wins the fight, he walks back to spawn to swap, because he knows for certain the enemy is about to swap too. At one point both tanks sit in spawn counterswapping each other back and forth until one is forced to leave to contest. This was not an error, this was the optimal play, and he wins the match because of it. Meanwhile, the most any of the dps swap is twice, and they mostly swap in-between rounds. You see people stay on lucio, sombra, bap, and a few others for multiple rounds without being forced to swap
All of the liars saying “The game was designed for this” can now politely stay quiet for the rest of all time and let the people who actually have any clue what is going on talk. The game was not designed for this. If it was, they wouldn’t have given the tanks ultimates if the optimal play was to always swap before you built ult.
This is the reality of tank now, you will never be allowed to play the same hero for more than one fight without being put at a massive disadvantage. You will never play a game against anyone except for your hardest counter. Even in quickplay, around half the players are tryhards who do this as a crutch (you will see them being angry in the replies to this thread). Is it any wonder why they are struggling to fill the queues with tanks despite needing half as many tanks per team?
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Samito is a toxic man child who will never stop crying until he gets what he wants.
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If 6v6 happens queues will be atrocious especially with this balance, plus double shield sigmatra will be everywhere.
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5v5 is just forcing counterpicking into a constant spam of swaps instead of a tactical decision you might not need to take if your team accommodates and adapts.
But with heroes like Sym, Brig and Mei made bad to obsolete, and the 2nd tank spot gone, tanks have no safety net like other roles. Counterpick is a necessity every 3 minutes instead of a strong suggestion in extreme cases.
For example, beam DPS heroes cant be strong because Dva mains dont have their pet monkey to win. They have butchered entire heroes who might have stopped solo tanks from functioning.
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Nah, 5v5 is permanent never gonna leave.
kottick era policy makes reversing large decisions almost impossible. Throw in that I am willing to bet the dev team sees 6v6 as Jeff’s thing, and so the team views 5v5b as their own creation, meaning it will be even harder to revert. Changing//buffing//nerfing tank abillities to remove//make hard counters harder will mean tanks will have an unusually high power level, and will potentially lose weaknesses because they dont want counterswapping.
It is painful to me seeing people who dont seem to understand that the MOBA aspects of this game are what make it different from COD or Battlefield. Time to kill should be high, shields and gimmicks should be strong, and if that is an issue, play something else
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Lul wut ow2 is an fps, even steam says it’s and fps not a moba. But you see this an issue so you should play something else.
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I’m so tired of this take, it’s wrong. 5v5 isn’t what’s causing the counterswap meta. I’m not against going back to 6v6 but it won’t solve the issue. If anything it’ll make it worse.
The issue is powercreep. Counterswapping has been and always should be a part of the game. The issue is that as you put more power into abilities and making the characters “power” easier to access, then you lower the skill floors and lower the power of other skills like aim, positioning, and match awareness (as examples there are more skills), because it’s much easier to overcome those skill advantages with a simple counterswap.
6v6 is just going to make the situation worse because it’s another player who can potentially now counterswap you and easily delete your contribution to the game until you swap. Your ability to overcome counterswapping with other abilities is diminished, not increased.
The game may still need 6v6, but not until Blizzard stops doubling down on powercreep and actually balances the elements of the game, as opposed to just characters off each other.
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i havnt seen enough of his stuff to know if hes a toxic man child but i can say he isnt wrong about the tank issue
counter picking on tank is basically done for the kit more so then the ult
so you are incentivized to swap the moment the enemy team makes a choice that hurts you otherwise you may end up getting zero value for several team fights.
you dont technically have too but if you pay real close attention you’ll find ppl in top 500 HATE those tank players because it makes everyones life harder when a tank is stubborn
weather or not thats a 6v6 problem or a balance problem i cant say
i think 5v5 and 6v6 both have their own issues but given a choice id take 6v6
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Oh, so that is why I am not top 500? I have been playing a lot of Reinhardt recently and when they swap… I just decide not to swap as well because I am having fun on Reinhardt. Am I doing it wrong?
There is no game quite like OW unfortunately
You’re correct here but i actually think 5v5 has made these problems WORSE compared to 6v6
I actually think it happened less in 6v6 because you have the Off Tank role to help balance things out, for example right now playing Winston into a Hog/Reaper is asking for trouble, in 6v6 with double bubble or Winston/Dva Winston could effectively play with the Off tank too offset being so hard counter,
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I think it’s and please hear me out now, tank has got to much of an impact on the game. Basically what I mean is that you have your DPS and you have your supports and you have your tanks. While supports and DPS are on a somewhat similar level when it comes to health and inherent character value they’re worth around the same. Tanks on the other hand are worth like one and a half or two DPS/support. Its basically the same principle as you would have in chess. If a support/DPS is a knight/bishop then tank would be a rook or a queen. What it does is it basically forces tanks to be much more careful of their pick choice because if you play a suboptimal DPS against an enemies optimal DPS, it doesn’t make as much of an impact as a suboptimal tank against an optimal tank pick. Of course counter picking still exists among supports and DPS, but not as much and that’s what I think is the reason why we have tank in the state it is now.
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I hate that NOW he’s talking about how skilless trash rock paper scissors is, and he’s right. But instead of “rework all the heroes to delete hard countering and rock paper scissors”, his only solution is “try the same thing but with 6v6”. That will not fix it.
But we know the devs don’t care about any player complaints unless a content creator says something, so at least they can’t keep pretending no one is complaining hero select has replaced the actual game. So at least now they will have to treat it seriously.
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Can we help Samito put his Minecraft server to work?
Like with Patreon or Kickstarter? xD
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Yeah, that’s my take away from it as well, although it does make climbing tank rather easy since at least in Plat 2 the average player just straight up refuses to switch, so it’s easy to punish.
With that said, I do miss the golden days of playing Reinhardt a whole match and having a blast.
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The game was built for swapping, and I don’t think a couple of players taking things to that extreme disproves that.
The issue is moreso 5v5 and the lack of tanks hybrids in other roles.
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I partially agree with this, in OW1 tank you had a second tank that could offset some of your vulnerabilities so you could still get value, now you get hard countered at every turn and impossible to play the game
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That’s not wrong, but the problem with tank is that it’s a constant. Enemy goes Rein, you go Orisa, enemy swaps to D.VA you go Zarya, etc.
Zarya is the closest thing to an AK-47 in the tank’s rock, papers, scissors but if your DPS are smart they can also force the tank to swap to something else by either bursting her down through her bubble or ignoring her altogether.
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