That still leaves 6 people who could throw or play serious.
You don’t know their mindset or what they will do, hence why they have 6 people that can do whatever and your own team has 5.
Is it really that hard to grasp?
On that bolded part alone really doesn’t convince me of anything on what makes sense of that logic.
What is there to grasp? Calculations on probability where a single value can cause more impact than its worth?
The gambler’s fallacy is when the gambler expects that past results influence future behavior. That is, if he flips a bunch of heads in a row, he is due for a tails on the next flip.
However, it is true (not a fallacy) that over many flips, the average flip will be half-heads, half-tails.
My previous statements are like the second statement, not the first. That is, over many games played, and Overwatch player will approach their correct rank. I’m not making any claim that individual game results are correlated (or anti-correlated) to each other.
However, keep in mind that there is an critical difference between Overwatch and coin-flipping. Though Overwatch games are not correlated to each other, win probability does vary with rank, so essentially the coin becomes less and less balanced the further you are from your true rank. Again, this is not the gambler’s fallacy, because it is not assuming that consecutive games have correlated results.
The effect of throwers, boosters, and trolls on rank does not become negligible at a specific rank. It becomes negligible when a sufficient number (hundreds) of games are played.
I’m asking why you don’t put in the effort to form teams / clans / friends lists / LFG or whatever so that you don’t have to solo-queue.
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Okay last time an attempt to explain.
In a match there is 1 thrower, that thrower has to join a team.
There are 5 spots on your team and 6 on the enemy, since you yourself don’t throw.
The odds that the thrower gets on the enemy is bigger than the odds that he joins your team.
6 is bigger 5
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Then how many more flips does it take? Until it hits five figures? Does it also account for regional culture in atleast what happens online?
Well, in context to what I said from the start on why I think the logic is flawed. I don’t care about the factor of winning games (as I let my improvements show if I’m worth it). I care about the overall experience of if its worth trying hard in the competitive mode of this game.
Then this game’s doomed… to fall (even further than it already has)
Because I was trying to do that in solo-queue and in Discord servers. Heck, it also contributed to why I decayed after a week simply because I refused to play without being in atleast a duo. Problem was that the available time I’m free, that’s when people in Overwatch-based Discords aren’t free. LFG was also a hot mess since every single time we lose, someone leaves, we wait for another, and if it takes long enough, the group disbands… Heck, it takes so long to already form a group. In terms of friends list, none have replied back… heck alot of players I tried adding won’t add me back.
Three words:
People. Aren’t. Numbers.
Incase you didn’t get that:
1 can outweigh 2. Ask the people who buy two plane tickets just for themselves and wonder why the plane’s taking off and there’s a free empty seat and you see the guy sitting on one of them…
Imagine that 1 guy who throws/trolls/griefs and he happens to be in the game. He still has a chance to choose NOT to do so, but what if he does? And he actually intends to. Now, which team does he go in to? My team or the enemy team? He goes to the enemy’s team. Sure, we win. What about the next game? Isn’t there a chance he can also do the same if he ended up on my team? Sure, I can avoid him… along with two others I’ve avoided already, but still that doesn’t discount the part that there’s enough of them to already destroy this logic. That thrower/troll/grief is basically that fat guy on the plane. He may have been the one that bought your plane ticket much earlier than you. Yes, you could’ve been earlier, but you had priorities. I don’t mean to fat shame since I was fat as heck and did that out of necessity, but I did my best to lose the weight and no longer need that. But the point is that the likelihood of those guys being around is large enough to make the logic flawed enough that its stupid to consider it.
I keep saying hundreds, not 10s of thousands.
Regional culture? What? That is so far off topic. But ladders from different regions can’t be directly compared. A 4000 SR player in Korea is probably better than a 4000 SR player in California.
I don’t have new to say on the other points.
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No because we can take this with even 11 throwers, and then you would still win the game since you’re not throwing. Let’s say you get the 11 worst players ever who just walk of the map. You would still win since you yourself didn’t and actually played the game.
No matter how large the teams are, how many trolls there are or in your example fat people. As long as the teams have even numbers and you yourself don’t troll, or in your example just buy in seat.
It’s always that there are 6 spots on the enemy team and 5 on yours.
6 potential throwers VS 5 potential throwers.
As long as you are consistent in playing properly, there’s always 1 person on your team that is playing properly.
But I’ve been through thousands of games and its only gotten worse, even at a turtle’s pace, to the point its gotten to this level.
Oh, let me clarify this. You see, During Season’s 7 and 8, I got subscribed to a few VPN’s to give me a hard lock in to US West servers (and I played Season 7 and 8 exclusively on US West servers) so I can avoid playing with Southeast Asians (I’ve always set my region to Americas, but when I read this link: Blizzard Support - Selecting a Battle.net Region since I live in Southeast Asia… I can’t natively queue in a US West server without a VPN. Playing in the actual Asia region not only gives me a higher ping than SEA, there are more players who just outright refuse to speak English [so its Korean or Cantonese or Mandarin]). I didn’t even care when my rank dropped to low Plat because I was enjoying the competitive mode of Overwatch even more. In Season 9 to 12 (I refuse to play in the current season), I’ve been trying to get my VPN’s to really keep a lock on a US West server, but I’ve concluded that my country’s ISP is, for the lack of a better word, horribly allergic to VPN’s. So, I’ve been sticking to getting lucky on Discord or just grinding it out in solo-queue… I just gave up after what happened to me in Season 12. You see, Southeast Asia’s level, intensity, and methods of throwing/trolling/griefing, compared to my experience in NA (not limited to Overwatch) is on another level. I can’t say much for EU because while I can tolerate 200-220 ping, I cannot tolerate 300 ping. That extra few ms of ping is too much of a delay. While I do think SEA still has decent players in terms of mindset… its polluted enough that I’ve given up.
That’s what I meant by taking regional culture in to account.
But that’d require both teams having throwers… and still, its a question of how hard’s a player throwing?
The point I was making with the fat person buying a seat, I mean that in a sense that he made it harder for you to get a seat on a plane that could’ve gotten you there earlier if he didn’t buy another seat just so he can fit.
So, disregarding impact one alone can do and talking about face value… got it.
Either way, I’m just humoring you on that logic since the initial context was the competitive experience alone… disregarding the chances of winning. I’m just saying that the competitive experience is so messed up that I’ve unintentionally been part of one of the problems (by that I mean I’m unintentionally dragging people down at my rank because I simply am not good enough at that rank I got lucky enough to get to).
So, if anything, I’m looking at it from different perspectives despite that my focus is on throwers/trolls/griefers. If I can make a negative impact by simply not being good enough at my rank, how much more of a negative impact can I do if I intended to even soft-throw/troll/grief alone?
At this point, I’m not sure we’ve really been communicating at all. It takes hundreds of games for your SR to be accurate. No number of games will make leavers/trolls/boosters stop happening. The only thing that will change that is if Blizzard gets more strict on banning people. But that has its own negative consequences, so Blizzard has to be cautious.
I think I can see your problem. You live in Southeast Asia, but want to play a team game (as a team) with English speakers at a very high rank. I don’t think Blizzard can fix this.
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Are they, though? They have pretty vague and loose rules that are just open for loop holes.
That’s just half of what I want. The other problem is, like what I said:
The reason for Blizzard including SEA and OCE under the Americas region (but can’t natively/naturally queue in NA servers) is to work as a wall inbetween other Asians and NA players. So, if Koreans and Chinese players want to play in the actual NA servers, they’d need a VPN. They cannot simply set their region to Americas and expect NA players, they’ll end up playing with us, which just adds fuel to the fire. I can’t blame them since China has a huge hacker population and market, but at the same time this sucks.
I can sacrifice ping, but I don’t have the patience anymore to keep subscribing to different VPNs to see which one my ISP’s “not allergic to”, all for a game. Its hard to justify. I honestly miss being close to Gold from Plat while I was playing in NA servers than I actually liked being basically served a Master’s badge, twice, in the same season, in SEA.
The language barriers aren’t the problem, its just a clash of cultures and our brands of egos clashing against each other more often than not. Thus why toxicity isn’t just limited to words, its basically throwing/trolling/griefing. Its either they increase the “Avoid as Teammate” limit to double digits or atleast give SEA its own region (instead of a server based in Singapore that has to peer to a US West server despite being marked as Americas region) and just region lock China/Korea/mainland Asia (excluding Southeast Asia) from being able to actually play in the NA servers.
I’m a plat player. Never been past plat. I can climb out of gold easily and have done so more times than I can count.
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no, not one of those is why people are stuck in gold.
all those things exist in all elos.
and they are stuck in gold because they have fundamental flaws in their gameplay
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Big difference when I am not GM or Diamond playing in Gold ranks so I am not a smurf. Smurf accounts are tha alt accounts that ruin Comp due to the skill gap people have in lower tiers as they rank up back to Diamond and above after playing POORLY!!. I am Gold playing in Gold. Placements were complete garbage. Leavers, throwers etc as usual. Many of them healers and tanks who leave either without warning or they get frustrated. Or they are leaving to rank in Bronze so they can rank up faster when the game thinks they suck. Not the same thing, different intent and motivation.
I also purchased this alt account so I can run my main Battlenet account which has a WoW subscription on it. I grind out profession stuff like crafting and disenchanting while I wait in the queue for Overwatch. Queue up 100 items to craft then switch back to Overwatch and check back to it in 5-10 minutes.
I am also not hiding on this alt account and not avoiding posting on my main accounts so, yeah. Not doing anything I am not supposed to or for fear of being actioned for trolling. Nice try though dude.
That’s only true if one doesn’t play many games. If a player plays a lot of games then a player’s skill absoultely IS the only reason for not climbing the SR ladder.
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i’m talking about diamonds stuck in diamond, plats in palt, gms in gm, masters in master etc. not master or gms in gold
and a gold playing like a gold being in gold is not stuck there because of the things listed, but because they are playing like a gold
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Wait, what?! Did you actually just say that professional Overwatch teams don’t use main healers because they’re all gods at peeking from natural cover? Are you confused with CS:GO matches that don’t have healers in any form?
Anyway, the real reason is that I did the first placements with a friend who was already gold in season 8, so I never even got the higher SR games that matchmaker would have put me with, because the friend was in gold.
I did the alt account thing, placed alone, and placed higher. a LOT higher…
PSA - Don’t do your first placement matches with a friend that is already ranked unless you want to be that rank. Nobody told me…
It was super strange to me Jacquie because quick-play shares the same pool of players using internal MMR - and in that system (you’ve been gone for two months it says, but there’s about 500k in the pool of Hanzo players registered on overbuff, you’re 97th percentile, and I am 84th percentile, all of our stats are pretty much identical.
Quickplay MMR can absolutely be an indicator that you are being held down, as this account plays in quickplay matches with players in the exact same elo range of the alt account because it uses YOUR skill and your stats to create fair matches, not your SR. If your teammates are higher SR than you in comp, it means that you are just as skilled as them (even quickplay matches are balanced to be fair by the system, so if you see a lot of enemies and teammates that have higher COMP SR than you do, you are not where you should be on the ladder in terms of STATS which determines everything, most importantly KDR, there is no more important stat in determining the skill of a player than their kills (efficiency) and deaths (ability to use cover to mitigate damage, and more importantly, deaths).
A high KDR shows that you know how to play the game at a high level. You know movement, positioning, correct cross-hair placement, angles, corners, techniques involving peeking, how to pie a corner or doorway correctly, how to counter-snipe, how to cross ground in front of an angle held by a sniper on high ground safely, how to enter and clear rooms, check corners, and clear with efficiency. A high KDR shows that you have mastered all aspects of game sense. THIS is why KDR is the ONLY stat that matters on a competitive ladder system. This kindergartner Fischer-Price “medal” system, is a joke.
That’s why silvers can play with golds or plats or sometimes even masters and grandmasters, they have the same skill (with the caveat that if the GM player does not play quickplay a lot, they may have a very low quickplay MMR, and will immediately rocket out on the next game to probably a diamond qp game as MMR seeks more balanced teammates and opponents because your GM presence was noticed immediately in your stats (mainly KDR and accuracy related statistics), and then got rocketed to master and GM quickplay games where they actually belong).
A plat Hanzo and Zarya could very easily slum in low silver or gold and roll entire teams with grav dragon combos. And the silvers do not possess the required level of game sense to counter-pick with Zen to stop the combo. If they do, they certainly won’t be able to stop a counterpick on the one or two heroes they know how to play to a mediocre level against a hard stuck 2700 DPS player that can’t climb because their aim isn’t good enough to click heads. And they are afraid to play their main accounts because the higher ELO smurfs are stomping them in plat, and now they are afraid of becoming the gold players they mock as pretend GM’s as the bottom falls out on the ladder because all of the bronze players jumped ship. And everyone is hemorrhaging SR because of goats, so the plats in DPS roles literally have no place in the game because they can’t play McCree well enough to headshot a bunch of tanks omegalul. This is probably also why they’re always the ones who I see blatantly aim-botting. The higher elo cheaters are very careful with their settings, the plats just use hard aim lock and push w at you…
So yes, this is a massive problem in Overwatch. Without a doubt.
I can murder everything in sight in gold with head shots if i’m left unchecked. I’m just never left unchecked and it all makes sense now. My presence in these gold games, tilts entire teams of platinum “smurfs” to the point that they convince their team to do nothing but kill me, and once i’m out of the picture (usually with a hard spawn camp by at least two people) they proceed to absolutely roll my actually gold teammates who cannot keep up with the healing on someone so hard focused because they can’t aim that well with Ana in gold dude.
The reason why I play quickplay games with diamonds and masters, is because the alt I finally made, placed in diamond and now sits in low master.
I have 20 years of experience playing CS dude, i’ve been global elite and I can’t get out of gold in Overwatch?! I was never supposed to be a gold, I just did my placements with a buddy who WAS actually a gold (and already ranked in gold for that season) player lol. I’m the worst smurf of all, and I never intended to be.
I have 16 deaths on McCree with 44% accuracy, 17k damage, 36 elims, 22 final blows, 5.81 solo kills, and 11% critical hit accuracy. And that’s in QP so it’s all diamonds and masters. But the account is hard stuck in gold. Maybe I can McCree my way out by 1vxing people with right click though, that’s pretty nutty damage. My skill also ensures that the opponent will have an extremely skilled player smurfing on the enemy side. So if I don’t identify that person and hard focus them fast things could get ugly in a hurry.
It always struck me as weird that I seemed to be the only player in every game that was capable of head shotting. And I always felt like I had to do everything or my team would lose. I didn’t know that I was the problem.
Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to language. Blizzard Support - Forum Code of Conduct
BTW, Gold is a majority rank.
If you see a post like “where have all the good role’s gone?”
You may want to consider training in that field.
There are many good players in popular roles but if they end up filling then it can go down hill from here.
Say you had 6 links in a chain, one weak link being the unpopular role, now if a good player fills that role who is from another role.
You end up with two weak links because the others players may not be as good.
If you like to play OW just put in some hours as other roles in QP, you may find it refreshing and learn something that makes your main roles synergize better.
If you can manage to play enough you WILL rank up eventually. And the throwers argument is just flawed. If you are NEVER intentionally throwing the game that means that your team only has 5 possible throwers while they have 6.
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The lower down you go the more likely you run into problem people.
Whether its their internet connection, toxicity, one tricking, kids who get their internet shut off when their parents find them playing past bedtime, it really can be elo hell at gold and below.
This is actually my main motivator for not allowing my rank to drop too far regardless of how tilted i am.
Once i even touch 2500 the games get so, so much worse.
There is no point in Having or mentioning all that mouse bs. left click, right click, anywhere from 400-1200dpi is all you need. As for 150fps , besides slight input lag decrease it’s still not very valuable either at 60hz (assuming you’re on a 60hz monitor not 144) … otherwise you make reasonable observations and points of what happens at gold but that still doesn’t change its basically an even spread of those types of people you’re talking about, meaning they are on enemy teams as well, waiting for someone who actually deserves to be at a higher rank to take advantage of their mistakes harder than they take advantage of the same dumb things your teammates may do. Keep up the PMA and work on your foundation (gamesense, positioning, mechanics ) until you slowly climb . Just a heads-up you will still deal with countless leavers, onetricks, 3-5 dps , toxic people until masters even .
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