There’s only one reason, and that is that you’re simply in the rank that you belong into. I had no issues climbing out of gold when I fell in there briefly. I’m not a DPS, I’m a support main. Focus on improving your own gameplay and you will climb, keep blaming your rank for anything else and you’ll stay there.
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lets go through this point by point
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leavers are a product of saltyness meaning; if a team does bad they rage quit. BUT if your team is winning, they wont. leavers happen to everyone, but the last time i was in gold (on a new account last season) i had a total of 10 leavers (after the match started) across 600 games played. yes i climbed out of gold in less then a day, but everyone says the same thing. i placed silver (playing mercy in placements) then climbed AS MERCY into plat SOLO QUE. and across silver-plat, i had 10 total leavers in a season. because we were winning, no one wants to leave a winning game.
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throwers, basically the same thing as number 1. throwers are tilted players who wanted too win but after you started too lose there brain explodes and they do some dumb stuff. but throwers as a whole dont just queue up to throw. they want to win, like everyone else. its when you dont perform that they start to tilt. this is why people who have done bronze-gm climbs almost never have ANY throwers/leavers. they carry so hard, no one tilts. theyre all happy
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feeders/bad players are just what gold and such is. despite what you may think of yourself, you feed and play poorly too. you dont see it because your too focused on what your team is doing. also keep in mind, everyone in that elo plays equally as bad. so the enemy is the same level of skill as you and your team. its only when YOU are a higher level of skill that climbing becomes easy.
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toxic players, ive seen alot of people say X person was toxic too them. right after they said something harshly toxic to them to start it off. raging at your team saying sarcastic things, intentionally picking heroes just so someone else cant play them. in my silver/gold games people were very nice too each other. i spent probably 10-20 games climbing from silver to plat. theyre were ups and downs, but very rarely was anyone actually toxic. there was no flamming, there was no hate speech, nothing that would require me to report anyone. if a person is saying thing thats make you cry, block them and report. literally the easiest thing to take care of. but if your constantly getting toxic players, you have to ask yourself. is everyone you meet toxic or are you the cause of it.
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the matchmaker is sometimes flawed in some ways. but largely speaking it eventually puts ppl where they belong, high elim count =/= winning. in a proper carry youd have a low elim count but high kill participation. as your not feeding, if you kill 60 ppl and lose, it means you didnt kill the right ppl at the right time.
the moral of these 5 points is you are what causes your problems. you make mistakes, you play poorly, insult your team ect and that causes you all of your supposed issues lul
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Faith? No. Math, science, and data. Roll of the dice? Yes. Except all the other 11 dice in the match are dependent on the rank of the match, and your dice is dependent on your ability. Whichever side rolls the highest total wins. If you are under ranked, your dice is loaded to give you an advantage. If you are over ranked, your dice is loaded to give you a disadvantage. If you are properly ranked, your dice is fair. Play enough games, and the loaded dice wins.
P.S. LFG has the ability to specify your comp in advance.
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I am climbing by maintaining those stats but its at a snails pace.
For example, I lose three matches but only lose 15 SR each because of my performance with good stats trying very hard to win.
Then I win one match and gain 35 SR.
Than I lose again and lose 15 SR.
Then I win again and gain 35SR.
So I had four loses and two wins out of six matches. If I lose one and win one then I keep climbing even more.
Four loses and two wins out of six matches puts me ahead a little by about 10 - 15 SR. So I am climbing this way but very slowly.
I have gained about 200 SR doing this but it took a few days.
PS - Its just not fun losing four matches in a row followed by two wins. Then lose another four matches in a row followed by two wins. Yes, I am climbing but its not fun grinding up this way.
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At the end of the day, its, quite literally, gambler’s fallacy.
Not when the next guy on my team nudges my hand as I roll the dice.
I’m talking about overall experience, not winning. Heck, its one of the reasons how I got to mid-Masters [from low-Diamond] last season (twice… in the same season) in two occasions in a single sitting per occasion because suddenly, I rolled the dice and rolled wins so many times until I started observing after my 3rd win where most of my wins were handed to me on a silver platter… Honestly, that does not feel satisfying. I did not improve as a player, I really think I should still be around Diamond (even base-line Diamond even if I can maintain low to mid-Diamond).
This isn’t the first or second week of LFG anymore.
Its why I can’t stand playing the game and I’m just in the forums waiting for a Blizzard announcement that addresses some key issues that have been complained about. Partially because I think Overwatch has massive potential left in the tank, partially because Blizzard intentionally or unintentionally monopolized the hero-shooter genre and also basically destroyed what’s left of arena shooters, and mostly because I have a hard time coming to terms that if I want a fast-moving FPS, my choices are Overwatch, games that have very close resemblance to Overwatch in terms of gameplay (and art style from time to time) that have more quirks than Overwatch, or sit in queue and/or play with basically the same 15-20 people in Quake Champions Competitive again… It gets old. A part of me wishes Lawbreakers didn’t fail so hard they had to shut the servers down.
Now I’m just playing Rainbow Six Siege and pretending 3-speeds are fast… but they’re already slow before the speed adjustments were applied, and it just makes them even slower.
You, quite literally, don’t understand the gambler’s fallacy.
The possibility of that guy being on your team is included in the typical behavior of a dice at your rank. Everyone has to play with the same dice (except for their own).
No argument here. Trolls, leavers, boosters, etc. are bad for the game play experience.
Since you are not posting from your game play account, I couldn’t see your rank. LFG does tend to break for the higher ranks. The question is why? Games are more fun as a group, there is an SR advantage (Groups and Matchmaking in Overwatch, unlike early in the history of the game). The only real problem is one of population: not very many people are on-line at your rank. But this could be overcome with greater organization. Maintaining friends lists, planned play times, using LFG to fill out holes in your comp and expand your friends list, etc.
I know it’s a lot of work, but Masters+ is the top of the ladder. Shouldn’t players there be willing to put in extra effort to get a better experience?
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Flawed logic?
You really don’t understand maths right?
6 is bigger than 5.
If you do not throw, there are 5 potential throwers on your team VS 6 potential throwers on the enemy team.
If you yourself are stable, you have 5 randoms on your team that can do whatever. And 6 people on the other team that are random and do whatever.
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Then explain it to me, then.
Then at what rank should it be when those things become negligible?
The thing is, from what I’ve been seeing after the second week of LFG’s release, more and more players take it for granted as an “EZ-win” feature until it failed, and less and less players use it.
Oh, I do put in the effort. Its just that for thousands of games I’ve played, its been mentally taxing since Season 4 that I’ve played this game to have to deal with the crap in solo-queue and it just gets worse and worse. Slowly but surely, less and less players go in to Competitive with the proper mindset alone. I’ve lowered my expectations in which I don’t even care if I have teammates who are mechanically worse than me, and/or worse game-sense than me.
Here’s the thing. Do you have any real control on the 5 other guys on your team in solo-queue?
What if there’s one guy out of the five potential throwers who DOES do it? What about the 6 on the other team? What if atleast one of them is applying this stupid logic?
Do you not get how stupid that logic is?
No that’s exactly the point we’re making, you can’t control the 5 randoms on your team but you can’t control the 6 randoms on the other team either.
You have two teams consisting of 6 players each.
The enemy team are with 6, all 6 of them could throw.
You have 6 on your team, you’re 1 of those 6. Which leaves 5 other players that could potentially throw the game if you are not throwing yourself.
So the chances of the enemy having a thrower is 6 out of 12 players. And the chances that your team has a thrower is 5 out of 12.
Which results to:
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Just because you count yourself out of the equation… without, for a second, thinking maybe the enemy team is thinking the same way?
That still leaves 6 people who could throw or play serious.
You don’t know their mindset or what they will do, hence why they have 6 people that can do whatever and your own team has 5.
Is it really that hard to grasp?
On that bolded part alone really doesn’t convince me of anything on what makes sense of that logic.
What is there to grasp? Calculations on probability where a single value can cause more impact than its worth?
The gambler’s fallacy is when the gambler expects that past results influence future behavior. That is, if he flips a bunch of heads in a row, he is due for a tails on the next flip.
However, it is true (not a fallacy) that over many flips, the average flip will be half-heads, half-tails.
My previous statements are like the second statement, not the first. That is, over many games played, and Overwatch player will approach their correct rank. I’m not making any claim that individual game results are correlated (or anti-correlated) to each other.
However, keep in mind that there is an critical difference between Overwatch and coin-flipping. Though Overwatch games are not correlated to each other, win probability does vary with rank, so essentially the coin becomes less and less balanced the further you are from your true rank. Again, this is not the gambler’s fallacy, because it is not assuming that consecutive games have correlated results.
The effect of throwers, boosters, and trolls on rank does not become negligible at a specific rank. It becomes negligible when a sufficient number (hundreds) of games are played.
I’m asking why you don’t put in the effort to form teams / clans / friends lists / LFG or whatever so that you don’t have to solo-queue.
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Okay last time an attempt to explain.
In a match there is 1 thrower, that thrower has to join a team.
There are 5 spots on your team and 6 on the enemy, since you yourself don’t throw.
The odds that the thrower gets on the enemy is bigger than the odds that he joins your team.
6 is bigger 5
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Then how many more flips does it take? Until it hits five figures? Does it also account for regional culture in atleast what happens online?
Well, in context to what I said from the start on why I think the logic is flawed. I don’t care about the factor of winning games (as I let my improvements show if I’m worth it). I care about the overall experience of if its worth trying hard in the competitive mode of this game.
Then this game’s doomed… to fall (even further than it already has)
Because I was trying to do that in solo-queue and in Discord servers. Heck, it also contributed to why I decayed after a week simply because I refused to play without being in atleast a duo. Problem was that the available time I’m free, that’s when people in Overwatch-based Discords aren’t free. LFG was also a hot mess since every single time we lose, someone leaves, we wait for another, and if it takes long enough, the group disbands… Heck, it takes so long to already form a group. In terms of friends list, none have replied back… heck alot of players I tried adding won’t add me back.
Three words:
People. Aren’t. Numbers.
Incase you didn’t get that:
1 can outweigh 2. Ask the people who buy two plane tickets just for themselves and wonder why the plane’s taking off and there’s a free empty seat and you see the guy sitting on one of them…
Imagine that 1 guy who throws/trolls/griefs and he happens to be in the game. He still has a chance to choose NOT to do so, but what if he does? And he actually intends to. Now, which team does he go in to? My team or the enemy team? He goes to the enemy’s team. Sure, we win. What about the next game? Isn’t there a chance he can also do the same if he ended up on my team? Sure, I can avoid him… along with two others I’ve avoided already, but still that doesn’t discount the part that there’s enough of them to already destroy this logic. That thrower/troll/grief is basically that fat guy on the plane. He may have been the one that bought your plane ticket much earlier than you. Yes, you could’ve been earlier, but you had priorities. I don’t mean to fat shame since I was fat as heck and did that out of necessity, but I did my best to lose the weight and no longer need that. But the point is that the likelihood of those guys being around is large enough to make the logic flawed enough that its stupid to consider it.
I keep saying hundreds, not 10s of thousands.
Regional culture? What? That is so far off topic. But ladders from different regions can’t be directly compared. A 4000 SR player in Korea is probably better than a 4000 SR player in California.
I don’t have new to say on the other points.
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No because we can take this with even 11 throwers, and then you would still win the game since you’re not throwing. Let’s say you get the 11 worst players ever who just walk of the map. You would still win since you yourself didn’t and actually played the game.
No matter how large the teams are, how many trolls there are or in your example fat people. As long as the teams have even numbers and you yourself don’t troll, or in your example just buy in seat.
It’s always that there are 6 spots on the enemy team and 5 on yours.
6 potential throwers VS 5 potential throwers.
As long as you are consistent in playing properly, there’s always 1 person on your team that is playing properly.
But I’ve been through thousands of games and its only gotten worse, even at a turtle’s pace, to the point its gotten to this level.
Oh, let me clarify this. You see, During Season’s 7 and 8, I got subscribed to a few VPN’s to give me a hard lock in to US West servers (and I played Season 7 and 8 exclusively on US West servers) so I can avoid playing with Southeast Asians (I’ve always set my region to Americas, but when I read this link: Blizzard Support - Selecting a Battle.net Region since I live in Southeast Asia… I can’t natively queue in a US West server without a VPN. Playing in the actual Asia region not only gives me a higher ping than SEA, there are more players who just outright refuse to speak English [so its Korean or Cantonese or Mandarin]). I didn’t even care when my rank dropped to low Plat because I was enjoying the competitive mode of Overwatch even more. In Season 9 to 12 (I refuse to play in the current season), I’ve been trying to get my VPN’s to really keep a lock on a US West server, but I’ve concluded that my country’s ISP is, for the lack of a better word, horribly allergic to VPN’s. So, I’ve been sticking to getting lucky on Discord or just grinding it out in solo-queue… I just gave up after what happened to me in Season 12. You see, Southeast Asia’s level, intensity, and methods of throwing/trolling/griefing, compared to my experience in NA (not limited to Overwatch) is on another level. I can’t say much for EU because while I can tolerate 200-220 ping, I cannot tolerate 300 ping. That extra few ms of ping is too much of a delay. While I do think SEA still has decent players in terms of mindset… its polluted enough that I’ve given up.
That’s what I meant by taking regional culture in to account.
But that’d require both teams having throwers… and still, its a question of how hard’s a player throwing?
The point I was making with the fat person buying a seat, I mean that in a sense that he made it harder for you to get a seat on a plane that could’ve gotten you there earlier if he didn’t buy another seat just so he can fit.
So, disregarding impact one alone can do and talking about face value… got it.
Either way, I’m just humoring you on that logic since the initial context was the competitive experience alone… disregarding the chances of winning. I’m just saying that the competitive experience is so messed up that I’ve unintentionally been part of one of the problems (by that I mean I’m unintentionally dragging people down at my rank because I simply am not good enough at that rank I got lucky enough to get to).
So, if anything, I’m looking at it from different perspectives despite that my focus is on throwers/trolls/griefers. If I can make a negative impact by simply not being good enough at my rank, how much more of a negative impact can I do if I intended to even soft-throw/troll/grief alone?
At this point, I’m not sure we’ve really been communicating at all. It takes hundreds of games for your SR to be accurate. No number of games will make leavers/trolls/boosters stop happening. The only thing that will change that is if Blizzard gets more strict on banning people. But that has its own negative consequences, so Blizzard has to be cautious.
I think I can see your problem. You live in Southeast Asia, but want to play a team game (as a team) with English speakers at a very high rank. I don’t think Blizzard can fix this.
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Are they, though? They have pretty vague and loose rules that are just open for loop holes.
That’s just half of what I want. The other problem is, like what I said:
The reason for Blizzard including SEA and OCE under the Americas region (but can’t natively/naturally queue in NA servers) is to work as a wall inbetween other Asians and NA players. So, if Koreans and Chinese players want to play in the actual NA servers, they’d need a VPN. They cannot simply set their region to Americas and expect NA players, they’ll end up playing with us, which just adds fuel to the fire. I can’t blame them since China has a huge hacker population and market, but at the same time this sucks.
I can sacrifice ping, but I don’t have the patience anymore to keep subscribing to different VPNs to see which one my ISP’s “not allergic to”, all for a game. Its hard to justify. I honestly miss being close to Gold from Plat while I was playing in NA servers than I actually liked being basically served a Master’s badge, twice, in the same season, in SEA.
The language barriers aren’t the problem, its just a clash of cultures and our brands of egos clashing against each other more often than not. Thus why toxicity isn’t just limited to words, its basically throwing/trolling/griefing. Its either they increase the “Avoid as Teammate” limit to double digits or atleast give SEA its own region (instead of a server based in Singapore that has to peer to a US West server despite being marked as Americas region) and just region lock China/Korea/mainland Asia (excluding Southeast Asia) from being able to actually play in the NA servers.