Suzu is kind of like lamp… people are mad that supports can stop things that would kill people. Its a strange thing, but people need to deal with a 1 second protection on a long cooldown, with a slow and arcing projectile…
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thats a 15% reduction in kirikos healing. 15% is a lot of healing, there are many break points thag change because of this, expecially with flankers and characters like mcree who greatly benefit with having 1 second withought the enemy getting healed to free fire. also its more about the devs understanding of the game and its problems. they identified the problem but have no idea how to fix it and instead made it worse. by removing some of her healing you make it so it takes longer to heal which means more time spent with your team healing instead of taking important off angles and damage opportunities
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Is that accurate? a 15% alteration in the delay results in an overall 15% drop?
I’ve really never sat down and looked at her healing mechanics numbers wise, fully willing to admit this might not be accurate but the premise didn’t make sense so.
Previously Kiriko did 130hp/s with a .85 delay until she could heal again; 130hp over 1.85 seconds = 70hp/s with recovery. I feel like this number should be bigger but I think these values are accurate 
After nerf she now does 130hp/s with a 1s delay, 130hp over 2 seconds or 65hp/s with recovery.
This looks closer to a 7.6%ish drop in actual healing output.
Willing to be shown the error of my ways. But a 15% modification to recovery alone doesn’t feel like it should be a net 15% loss of overall output.
These flankers had 0.85 seconds already, not too many players are going to benefit from that extra 0.15. I don’t think plat DPS are going to be taking advantage of this additional window.
I also do not think it’s going to really factor into your ability to take off angles or any of that. Kiriko is still very probably going to be healing more than most of the other supports and I don’t see anything here that’s going to drop her out of meta. 8% healing loss isn’t going to be enough.
I’m still going to see Kiriko and Mercy in most of my games.
This Nerf isn’t too bad. Before you had to choose between throwing 1 kunai vs 2 kunai (but sacrifice a slightly earlier heal) now it just flows better with 2 kunai in between heals. It isn’t that big of a nerf really but makes her heals feel clunky if you where not dealing damage in between heals like you should.
I can tell you that I’ve played her a lot since the patch, and her heals do feel very clunky now, and the bigger problem for me is trying to heal up a tank after a fight if they are at critical health - i’m not going to be throwing kunai, it just feels like a chore.
I’d like to see if they can implement some kind of ‘out of combat’ feature that helps with it, maybe the heals do more? it definitely won’t be easy.
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Before you had to choose between throwing 1 kunai vs 2 kunai (but sacrifice a slightly earlier heal) now it just flows better with 2 kunai in between heals.
You could still make that choice before, you could choose to throw 2 kunai and wait the .15 seconds. Now the devs have increased the recovery time to take away any option you had - either throw a kunai to attempt to get extra damage in, or increase your healing effectiveness by 8%.
It isn’t that big of a nerf really but makes her heals feel clunky if you where not dealing damage in between heals like you should.
I’ve admitted this before, I’m horrible at aiming, even with years of playing - but I’m really good at positioning, timing and the like, so I feel a bit insulted when people say “like you should”, because in my eyes I am more effective as a character when I’m healing instead of wiffing 80% of my Kunai.
You could say “But what about that 20% when you do hit, that really helps your team!”. The average player doesn’t look at their performance numbers over a career or even a session, most average players look at how they do in a single match. If I could heal someone to try and save them, i’d rather do that then try for the 20% chance to do 60 damage to someone.
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The best thing about the nerf is the patch notes: They basically say that they dont want a support to spam heal. But then Mercy exists…
To be fair if your spamming heal beam as mercy your doing it wrong.
Let’s be real here and give a bit of conspiracy theory. Tin foil hats on.
They don’t know how to balance Suzu so they wont and leave it as is.
So since they don’t know how to nerf Suzu anymore without making it a useless ability, instead it’s easier to make her healing less instant and make the combo of “Make them invincible for a second” + “Heal them while they benefit from Suzu” not as powerful.
The “she wasn’t meant to be played that way” is just propaganda to hide the real reason.
I just dont think making her physically heal less is the answer to this issue. there are way better ways to fix this such as making the burst not take so long to finish but still have the same healing overtime and recovery inbetween heal casts, or other changes to how weaving in heal and kunai could occur as mentioned above. i personaly think this is just a bandaid random thrown change to say they see a problem but dont know what to do.
as for the 15% i just saw that number thrown around somewhere your math is probably correct, and 1 second break point is pretty important for characters like mcree because they take 2 shots in 1 second and that change can be the difference between head shot body shot killing, and not killing.
I think that all supports should be buffed so the role is more fun to play and have more impact on game outcome, crazy things like ana getting an elytra from mc, and hitting shots dosent cost amo and increases your fire rate for your next to shots.
i understand your take and i think it depends on the type of game enviroment people play in, i know for scrims and team play that heal nerf will change a number of things for ult charge (what you originaly played her for) along with less healing might make certain comps not as viable. kiriko would still be top dog but how the game will play and the speed / comps that could be played with her will be altered so it really depends on how important suzu and support mobility would be in the potential upcoming ram meta.
ty for your input i def dont think its a meta breaker like you said but support role as a whole is struggling and we should buff everyone up not nerf kiriko down. (specifically buff agressive aspects of there kits / add or buff mobility.)
On a side note, the damage nerf was essentially just a revert because the previous patch they buffed it to 10 from 9 which they reverted back in this patch plus the charge nerf isn’t exactly a nerf because you now get more energy from targets with armour/defensive abilities. But still, I think she is still gonna be a meta character because they still didn’t address the one shot which is why people pick her.
I think Blizzard are saying support aren´t suppose to heal but to do damage. Healing is something you do after the team fight… Whats left of the team anyway!!!
So all dps Moira and gun wealing Mercy was doing right… 
I think there are some abilities that supports have that can have a big effect on the game - like anti-heal grenade/nano boost from Ana, or speed boost/beat drop from Lucio. But ultimately if they take away the effectiveness of healing specifically, they need to tune their utility up to compensate, at least in my opinion.
It shouldn’t be a situation where if the enemy team has an Ana, someone on my team has to play Kiriko to directly counter her. Maybe give Brig’s healthpack back it’s armor ability - maybe just overhealth/shield instead, and make it so if I healthpack and Anti-healed target it doesn’t heal but gives them that temporary health/shield.
I’d hate to take away Mercy’s rez, but maybe replace it with an ability that gets charged as she heals/damage boosts, and when she uses it any target her beam is attached to for a short duration gets bonus health/damage reduction?
As Mercy if I am pocketing a target it feels really bad when they get focused and I just want to make my heals heal harder.
I will say the abilities do have impact, but usually its all for the team to have impact or gets easily denied / causes you to die for using it.
ana anti heal is strong but gets easily blocked / ignored as of current. i think making shorter cd’s but less impact would create a better dynamic for a cd like this and sleep dart.
nano boost is just an ult that buffs a team mate, your actual impact on the match just comes from when and who you hit with it so honestly not a lot there.
speed boost is completely reliant on team mates and makes it so while it affect the game it doesn’t affect the OUTCOME of the game, which is what’s important. Support needs game outcome impact not impact on just i picked mercy and press dmg boost, or rez or speed boost ect. Beat drop would be a good example since holding it as long as possible and timing and coordination is very important, the down side is that ults like this mean nothing anymore with stuff like sojourn ult, ram ult, and other offensive things lasting longer or out damaging beat.
if the enemy has an ana you don’t have to have a kiriko, the reason why kiriko is picked is because now you can completely ignore one of the enemies picks, and hog is a very strong tank with one weakness so if you remove that weakness it makes him incredibly strong. its more of a problem of the current state of the game rather than how anti nade works. ( i do think the interaction should be changed for suzu pausing anti duration rather than hard cleanse but ya.
idk about brig, she needs a lot of changes to fit in.
i think mercy rez has a place because of burst damage bs like hanzo, widow, sojourn, hog, ect. but if these 1 shots get removed I think removing rez is fine, damage boost also does a lot and should be replace or heavily nerfed. (your idea sounds interesting but i think also giving her some offensive ability that affects the enemy could be neat on top of that.
Overall I think you have confused impact on a game and how it is played, compared to impact on the outcome of a game. Right now supports have very little impact on match outcome, in overwatch 1 the little damage that they did put in would sometimes be the only way to secure a kill but now that a lot of support is holding heal as much as possible so your powerful tank and 1 shot dps can play the game as you run from there threats and just watch them fight each other, your damage meaning nothing because of 1 shots, not being able to position for aggressive plays / use your defensive abilities offensively. And even if you did use them offensively they would have a button to just completely ignore it.
I hope support abilities get retooled to be focused on doing stuff to the enemy, helping allies confirm kills in hard skillful ways that matter, and have it so healing is done at the same time as damage rather than one or the other forcing flex supports to be locked into taping down heal and not having impact. Edit replied to wrong person meant to do Varean.
she dosent but ok if you say so person with no skill
The nerf was exactly what she needed tbh. It’s fine that Kiriko has suzu, damage, and a teleport. What wasn’t okay is that she had all this, while also being able to put out stupid amounts of healing
the problem is that the devs said it did something, it did the complete opposite of. im fine with her power being lowered in comparision to the other supports, BUT the power level of all supports right now needs to be increased (especially in the offensive department). role currently has no impact on match outcome and feels like you just spectate most matches when you are forced to play optimally because you arent playing in some low elo easy flank masters game.
Completely wrong. Supports are fine where they are at right now. I’m a GM player and supports have huge impact in every single game
impacting a game vs impacting the outcome are two verrry different things. as of ow2 healbotting has been the most impactful things you can do. the kiriko winstion reaper sojourn lucio meta. you held heal. throwing almost any kunais was considered a big throw because it looses uptime for your sojourn and other dps/tank sustain. suzu is just used after an ability is used to cancel every offensive support ability. so the skill expression is how well can u sit there, not die, hold the easy heal button, throw some kunais that are inconsistent. and wait to press suzu when the big onscreen notification tells you to.
as for other supports ana has been reduced to the samething with her cooldowns no longer impacting enemies as much from suzu, her getting one shotted across map, her getting just murdered after using any of the cds, and landing sleeps and antis on tanks not being as impactful anymore. the only ability that has any real impact is using the 14 second sleep dart on an enemy dps and then they either die from being very far away from the team, or get suzued, or protected by the tank most of the time.
baptiste has a problem with team fights not being as grouped up anymore(also same with moira) and his projectile speed is pretty slow for the angles that supports need to play from now. his impact mainly comes from his primary fire damage because most of his kit is very easy and simple to use, and time consistently at high level. but in the current state of overwatch it is hard for supports to take angles from the amount of one shots and baps kit just doesn’t compare well in this new format. he might be good with ramatra teams tho.
moira just sucks. no litteraly.
lucio comes from just using speed and heal when told to. he use to be very impactful as a dps frog with his great mobility and boop but has completely fallen off with 1 shots being prevelant and the tank needing a lot more recources at all times.
mercy has always been like this and will always be like this outside of her movement. it just comes with how that kit is designed so its mostly okay, but it would be cool to change away from stuff like rez and dmg boost because it is annoying to go against and dmg boost breaks the game.
brig is non existent right now. idc that she isnt real but someone does.
zen. zen is the type of character you pick when the enemy just isnt dying and u want to obliterate them, most of the time you will just get farmed by a dive comp but with hog being good he honestly isnt a terrible pick and discord does a lot. we should remove discord and rework him tho because -25% of your health is very strong to just place on someone.
overall supports impact the game and how its played but dosent impact the outcome of a game (unless literally throwing). think of it like a mobile health pack that gives you random buffs depending on what character you picked. thats support. healing cant be missed, ability timing is given to you. and it is super consistent and easy. i think their kits should become harder to use and have impact on enemies instead similar to baptiste, and now kiriko, of healing and dmging. but right now the game makes that impossible, or not optimal. that or make hard to hit agressive abilities like back line anti nade or sleep dart matter more. ect. this isnt really a just (haha buff supports) type of thing because it would break a lot of the things that make ow2 really good for tank and dps players. i think by just lowering the damage output of certain tanks and dps (sojourn, hog, widow and hanzo burst dmg) and then raising the damage opportunity for supports could make the game more healthy. back in ow1 support was fun because your damage input and agressive plays mattered. not talking like full to zero someone but getting a shot in on a important target who a team was focusing could change them from bot dying to being killed but as of now going for stuff like that is not as impactful because all characters now just one shot and being in a position to do stuff like that now isnt encouraged like it was before, even though we have more tools then before. thats why i suggested what i did above with adding more consistency to kirikos dmg with kunai travel speed and giving her more intervals between healing to throw them (maybe move speed would help aswell) giving ana mobility and a passive to help her take dos shots and not get punished with lower healing output. give bap more forms of utility and monility to be able to use his cool kit. of course other changes like removing imo, changing how anas cds work and suzu would also have to follow. like making anas cds shorter but less impactful so its up more often. making suzu only pause anti effect. and bap loosing lamp for the new ability. as for lucio just making the active play making and counter play with the enemy encouraged over just sitting with the team on speed or heal. idk how to fix the other supports but i do hope something makes them more fun and engaging
i really hope that next time you respond to someone you do more than (haha im gm my input matters more than other people who study this game on a fundamental level for coaching pro play teams) it might be different from ranked or from your experiences so please elaborate more on your thought process and give insight on what you would want to do fix issues or why you see it as a non issue.
i would also have you yet again consider the comment notes. on the kiriko change. stating it was done to help kiriko not spend as much time healing by increasing the time it takes for her to heal someone. if it was just a nerf to reduce her healing it wouldnt be a big deal, but because of the context given it shows how dumb of a change it really is.
Dude, I’m in top 500. The best way to play support is to heal AND get kills. If you aren’t getting kills as support, you are objectively throwing. Healbotting is a ow1 thing. If you are healbotting in ow2 you are throwing and will never get past diamond. Stop healbotting and help your team actually win the game by getting kills. Kiriko is a dps/support. She isn’t meant to only heal. It’s why she can two shot with Kunia. It’s exactly why this nerf was made, because healbotting is a boring way to play ow, and a very cheap way to win games.
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