She got the DM buff as part of beta 1. In Beta 1, Winston was the best tank and D.Va was underpowered. In Beta 2, Junker Queen was the best tank, and D.Va was underpowered. Hence the buffs for the live version, she was underpowered 2 betas in a row.
Mobility in general beats him. His primary fire is amazing against slow walking targets, especially when you poke at his splash range, scoring a lot of cheap damage. He likes to fight those Hogs and grouped up slow teams. He is good 1vs1 too against squishies. But fighting those monkeys, Pharas, Genjis, Sombras, Tracers etc is very difficult and requires ton of effort. He is in healthy state imo, has some good match ups and bad ones and doesnāt dominate his good ones either. Just because he can block some spam from Hanzo or Torb, doesnāt necessarly mean he counters them. Just make their lifes more difficult than for example Rein. But he suffers from getting dove on or ignored entirely by mobility and needs to sweat hard to hit them.
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This might have been said but D.Va was not in a good place before she got buffs, this is a āpartial revertā to the buffs she received because it would literally make zero sense to nerf her to be weaker than before. If sheās still too strong then expect another round of changes, itās as simple as that.
I donāt know, I donāt think RPS for the important tank role is necessarily a bad thing. There are some under performing tanks that could use some love but I think many people donāt realize that as a tank youāre not forced to take every tank fight. Or even in some cases youāre not supposed to until the squishies have been dealt with.
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Thats their weird philosophy of not nerfing the OP one wich is very much needed and instead buffing the one that was already balanced, same with releasing Brig instead of nerfing Tracer/Dive.
They shoulda just nerfed Winston to her lvl, they still need to nerf Winston.
Every tank was underpowered into Queen is the thing, data from beta 2 was awful because of that.
And thats fine, strategy and RPS and stuff, its fine that characters have strenghts and weaknesses.
I think hes just a tad bit too good, something like they thought D.va was, iād just scrape abit of his Projected Barrier and shield gain from his SUCC and i think heād be pretty fair all in all, still strong when applicable, not too strong to be run instead of Rein when maybe he would be.
She was good, she just wanst utterly overpowered and thats what they made her, they gotta nerf her and all the op tanks.
RPS is always gonna be a thing and is actually a good thing since thats how matchups work and how OW functions in general with hero switching, they just gotta put more options on that RPS system.
The issue with that is that tanks rn are dictacting too much of the game and should absolutely receive a overrall power lvl decrease to maybe dictate a good 25-30% of the match instead of like 35-40% wich is like now i thikn.
Not according to the devs stats and almost everyone who played the betas.
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IMO Terrible data usage, i didnt see everyone saying she was bad, only saying she wasnt at the best tier, what they should have done, and still should is nerf the ones at the top and not buff her/the ones at the bottom instead.
Many other factors like Queen being OP putting the tank data at shambles, Zarya being even better soft countering her at low lvl and she being a hard character for low lvl playā¦etc.
The problem was that nearly every tank besides like Hog was better than her. Even before the queen showed up in beta 1, she wasnāt in a spot where you would want to pick her over anything else. It doesnāt really make sense to nerf EVERY other tank just because D.Va is weak, at that point just buff D.Va it seems like the smarter thing to do. And thatās what happened! If you want to keep debating this go ahead, but itās in the past now so I think Iāll stop replying here.
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I guess thatās fair. But I donāt see how they can do that for tanks without adding new ones in. Since JQās design doesnāt really counter anything tanks currently do. I suppose her ability to pull some tanks out of position might be notable. But itās not like sheās the only one who can do that. Making DF actually competitively good would just destroy RPS entirely. And ballā¦is ballā¦
I suppose if Rein was actually in the meta that could shake things up some what but idk what. The only tank that needed a strong nerf to me was Zarya and sheās getting it.
I will have to disagree. OW2 is very much about positioning and owning power positions on maps. Tanks are designed to effect space in a significant way. Be that disrupting a space or holding it. If we made tanks globally worse so the role was less important I feel like it would skew the game far too much into the DPS roleās favor. Which to me would mean much less interesting gameplay.
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i think its fine. you need small gradual nerfs. see where the hero stands later instead of the SLEDGEHAMMER that genji and sombra are gonna get
Not at all, Rein, Hog, Ball, Orisa were all worse than her, Doom was also OP, when he got nerfed he also went way below her.
You dont just buff the ones that are not OP enough, thats just how you end up with power-creep everywhere, and what do u mean its in the past? it can be changed easily.
Nerf the op ones, easy enough.
Nerf Sigma/Zarya and the dive ones and maybe Rein will be meta.
For me, putting more than 30% of the teamās power on one player on a 5 player-team game is just alwful and leads way too much into the role being way too spiked in value, mind you, they will always dictate how the game is played when it comes to stopping the DPSās they just cant be even better dpses while doing that same thing, thats just crazy.
The problem here is that the tank role imo needs sledgehammerinā since its so one-sided in many ways.
I really donāt think he needs further nerfs to his barrier. It goes down quickly and doesnāt come back too fast. 2 second cooldown on deploy also prevents from spamming it like Rein. Suck is absolutely necessary to withstand some onslaught when getting rushed. Without it he would be useless against any aggressive composition. This way he can at least block damage from dps heroes, even if tank smacks him down. Itās necessary tool in his disposal and never felt oppresive to me.
Iām really fine with fighting Sigma in OW2 and he was fun to play as well.
I donāt think Sigma needs nerfing at all. Winston getting a nerf would be hilarious. And I donāt think Dva needs more adjustments beyond what sheās getting. Rein isnāt going to be in meta based on nerfs. Heāll need some buffs to be allowed in the meta.
Iāve seen this claim made a lot and I canāt really agree that tanks are just better DPSās. Most tanks donāt do enough burst damage to actually secure elims and when you couple that with the lack of aim inconsistency at most levels of play that makes their dps even worse.
Rather I assert that because average players cannot aim well it makes tanks feel too oppressive. I feel like Orisa is a perfect showcase of this. As sheās nearly unkillable for most players especially if being burst healed. But in high brackets she doesnāt exist. Partially because there are better tanks (as such why hog isnāt played) but also because these players have the game sense to burn her CDās and then use their superior aim to delete her.
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I just think if we are to nerf a character, we hit em where its the most boring, and that is usually just HP stats/Barrier wich is basically what iād reduce.
I agree, hes just always have been a tad bit too strong and i would prefer to nerf him instead of buffing Rein into his lvl, again, because good tanks need to be nerfed imo.
Slight nerf on Sigmaās boring stats like barrier/HP, Winston is really good atm, what would be hilarious about it?
What do u mean Rein wont be meta on nerfs when his peers are getting nerfed, his value goes up, its that simple.
They arent better at killing as dps but they have so many stats in general that that doesnt really matter.
That is not completely true in the sense that good tanks dont care if u can aim or not (D.va/Zarya) they are just way too good, even on high lvl where aiming well is a norm.
Orisa inst played because shes bad into Zarya and D.va while Zarya is good into D.va, pretty sad turn of events for her really.
Plus her ultimate is kindaā¦ weak.
Exactly, nerf his peers instead of buffing him, hes just bad cuz everything else is so good, his rush peers (Sigma/Zarya) are better than him and dive is so strong they can easily outmaneuver him.
I have been playing Rein here and there, his charge cancelling is really good, makes him so much more engaging but still doesnt actually cover his whole weaknesses (wich is good)
Rein isnāt bad at all, he is just outclassed by OP tanks now. He doesnāt need any buffs, nor Sigma doesnāt need nerfs imo. I can easily see him being picked over Zarya when they tune her down. That cancelable charge was a game changer for Rein.
Curious to why you think these should be adjusted on Sigma then. Iām used to hearing people wanting to nerf his kit instead.
Less that I think Winston isnāt good so nerfing him would be dumb but more that I feel like heās one of the best designed Heros atm so I donāt see why he should be adjusted at all.
Iām not saying his value doesnāt go up. Iām saying that Rein atm is dependent on having Lucio on his team since his movement is garbage. While Lucio is in meta atm having a hero on your team that is comp dependent is a weakness and I donāt think you can justify that unless the specific pairing can over value that downside.
Rein also needs some survivability buff or a damage buff. As his pain points aside from his movement speed is that he cannot pin for kills in a lot of situations now that pin does less damage. And with the fire strike damage nerf he also canāt combo some people to death. So yes, nerfing others will make him more valuable. But he still needs love elsewhere to truly stand again imo.
Yes thatās the case for some tanks. But Iām saying that good aim does impact the value of some tanks.
Yes that is a factor. But it doesnāt change my prior statements. Orisa is hard to kill for regular players because she canāt be played around or effectively burned down for normal players.
I agree, but just to clarify Iām speaking about tank complaints on an average playing field. Iām not saying that the lack of aim consistency is the major reason for balance at all. I just think that itās a factor many over look. Minor adjustments to damage or CDās primarily effect high level play since those people are the people who will land shots and punish poor plays. HP values of any kind are what regular players will feel and understand the most because they lack aim consistency and donāt punish mistakes properly or often enough.
I dont see any inheret issues with his kit other than overtuning, and i say when going for nerfs or changes in general, we usally should target the most boring part of a character, and that is usually HP stats/Barriers, except when there is something that is inheretly broken about other parts of ther kit like Soujourn being able to one shot.
Same vein as Sigma, just nerfing his Barrier/HP/Armor so hes easier to punish.
That unfortunately is always gonna be a Rein specific issue until they make it so he cant get sped up with his shield up but has more natural shielded movement speed or something like that, luckily for Rein though LĆŗcio is incredbly strong atm so i guess that woulndt play too much a problem? still an issue iād like them to adress tho.
No i dont think so, hes pretty balanced atm, i dont see any inherent issues with his kit either and i want tanks to not be so opressive so i dont see any reason to buff him at all.
I mean its not like mechanical skill doesnt affect the tank role, i dont really agree with that no, i dont really see ur point here is the issue, i dont understand how having less mechanical skill somehow just makes tanks stronger when in fact it just makes the dps weaker instead (wich in turn buff the other 2 roles).
Oh she can, people just havent learned how to play OW2 quite well enough, eventually everyone will catch up on the point that shes just ignorable alot of the time.
I dont see it.
And imo thats how we should balance games, from a top down, trickle down perspective, with the ceilling in mind, trickling to the floor, tha trickles to the beginners.
Now isnt that just the truth, some times though ādumpsteringā is required, tho i dont even think D.va would be dumpstered even with 1 less second of D.M if all of the opressive tanks (D.va, Zarya, Winston and Sigma) get nerfed as well.
Who even asked about scraping 0.2s of Kirikoās teleport i-frames though?
I think the op overrates d.va alot amd tanks in general but I do think there is an outside factor that doesnt get talked about alot with tanks and that is Roadhog vs Ana.
Its kind of hard to comeup with an abilty that counters a hero more than biotic gernade with its anti-heal vs hog whos designed relies on face tanking. Oh and it gets worse for Hog as he has to deal with sleep dart as well. Tbh I dont think alot of the ābalancingā going through would be a thing if one of the limted heroes in the tank pool was not easily oblitered by Ana.
Not sure how you fix this problem either. But as it stands currently its basically as if tanks have one less option. I do think hog actually does quiet well currently when he is allowed to exist. Hooking Genjis and Sombras is one of the best things you can do as tank vs them for instance.
I actually do know, either make it so Hog can cleanse himself with take a breather or convert his healing into overhealth gain.
Do i overrate D.va? maybe a little, the fact stands shes really strong in a overly stong role and needs bigger nerfs than this.