Precisely, we are forced to have 2 of each. They could easily keep dps low impact and chu chu the tanks to the top. It donât matter no more.
True. Stronger but only able to access that strength if your teammates support you and position with you, isnât that fun.
Stronger in a way that doesnât require coordination, usually means fun.
Every character was available for selection during GOATs, people picked those characters because they couldnât surpass the sustain in which was largely contributed to by Reinhardtâs massive shield.
I agree with his nerf to shield value he could have used a minor speed increase, but the one they gave him is absurd. In addition, he received steadfast as an answer to cc, a problem that plagues every tank and not just Reinhardt. Itâs too much.
And I happen to think youâre dead wrong.
Being better than the opposing teamâs Waste of Space #1 and #2 does not feel good, even if your slot is guaranteed simply because they cannot replace you with a hero from another Role â any of whom would likely be more impactful.
Sure, that role decision is a null concern when your forced to play an inferior role regardless, but the player experience is undoubtedly affected.
Do not overpower a role just to artificially inflate its participant count. All excessive power has a cost elsewhere.
every tank is also not reinhardt. it wonât apply the same evenly when not every tank does the same job
I donât really think so.
Every time weâve had a totally OP hero I play them for a bit and itâs fun at first, but then I honestly get kind of disgusted at them, and I donât like them at all. It feels cheap and wins feel unearned. I donât want OW to elevate tanks and make them Just Better than DPS, thatâs stupid, and it would make me want to tank less, not more.
I think barrier tanks have a lot less capability to âFlexâ than other roles.
For instance,
Healers, if you are getting dived to much as Ana? Go Moira or Mercy. Not enough damage, go Zen. Pharah isnât dying, go Ana or Baptiste.
Most people wait 10 minutes to play their garbage dps without a second thought, why does the experience all of a sudden matter just because they have to face slightly better tanks that were already broken to begin with? That makes no sense.
Probably because the concern is DoubleOffTank vs the equivalent Rein/Zarya.
Which is kinda solved in that recent thread I had. Since DoubleOffTank has a strong HP advantage.
Of course ladder, thatâs what the playerbase at large will experience. I donât keep up with OWL.
To each their own, but playing multiple other shield tanks against Rein Iâve realized two things. We are very easy to shatter because of our downtimes with shields and damage mitigation, and if one lucio boop(or any boop) could actually push him off out of melee range, we would stand a chance midfight.
Iâve proposed solutions that didnât touch Rein, like reworking the shield to cooldown ratios of Orisa(so she can place more shields, albeit weaker) and reworking her fortify to function more like D.vaâs matrix resource, and reducing Sigmaâs shield cooldownâall so we dont have to touch Rein but still give others a real chance to block a shatter. If they wont do that than we need a midfight solution since we canât beat Rein at the ult game, which is where removing Steadfast comes into play.
steadfast doesnât make him unmovable though. not sure why youâre trying to paint it like this.
cant? of course you can, it requires practice. it requires knowing ult economy and who might have it.
the buffs to other tanks can work without needing to touch reinhardt though. removing the shield cooldown for sigma can be a good start
I think Rein still needs some nerfs even if other tanks are buffed, though. He got huge buffs in steadfast and his shielded movement speed and he did not âpayâ for them in other areas nearly enough to balance it out. Heâs still way too good, and I think it would powercreep the tanks bad if we made other tanks as good as he is now.
it would be powercreep to nerf him and then buff the others
???
Of course he moves, just not enough.
Of course you can block a shatter from a gun ho Rein player, but any intelligent player on Rein should know that the ball is in his court. He need only pressure the fortify or Sigma shield recall and he has a guaranteed shatter.
Compare shattering Orisa or Sigma versus shattering another Rein who has a shield at will? See the difference? Rein on Rein is an actual fair match up where you psyche each other our and capitalize on the mistake. On anyone else, getting your shatter blocked is more of your mistake as Rein.
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No, it would be powercreep if we buffed Orisa/Sigma/Winston/Ball to be as good as current Reinhardt.
Rein needs to come down a bit and they need to go up a bit.
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i dont actually. itâs the same difference. sigma and orisa have ways of blocking that shatter and itâs still a mind game regardless. Even in a Rein v Rein, itâs still not entirely easy as youâre usually swinging or hoping your team breaks the shield and gives you a crystal clear opening.
and where are you trying to buff the other tanks and nerf reinhardt in. This is what depends on if itâs powercreep or not
With Rein I would probably nerf his barrier and maybe his ult or ult charge.
With Orisa, she needs more barrier.
Sigma needs more barrier too, but not as much as Orisa.
Winston needs survivability to keep up with DPS damage creep.
Ball needs more offense to compensate for his nerf, maybe faster ROF or something.
and by how much exactly? for all of this, estimates can always seem harmless on paper but by what amount will you do this?
what do your numbers look like?
Hmm.
Rein: Reduction to 1300 or 1400 barrier, +10% to ult cost
Orisa: Barrier to 800, cooldown to 8s.
Sigma: Barrier to 1000, regen speed increased.
Winston: Start with 50 extra HP and go from there.
Ball: 20% increase to cannon ROF.
Also, add in a rule that if you have more than one of Reinhardt, Orisa, Sigma barriers on your team take 30% more damage.
lets do some math
for this, double barrier is 1800 if itâs reduced by 30% then double barrier is just 1260 hp total
currently, double barrier is 1500
i mean, this is an interesting way to sledgehammer the comp. It kills it off to a percent lower than Reinhardtâs shield but overall leaves a net negative since youâre weaker using them.
itâs not a perfect solution but in terms of not restricting two shield tanks, it works i guess
honestly, i say just leave reinhardtâs shield the same but go through with everything else. Rein doesnât need a lower shield and using two shields grants a negative so theres no point in him needing to be weaker anyway if the other tanks get stronger independantly