🔨 The Reinhardt Talk

General Discussion
38

and by how much exactly? for all of this, estimates can always seem harmless on paper but by what amount will you do this?
what do your numbers look like?

39

Hmm.

Rein: Reduction to 1300 or 1400 barrier, +10% to ult cost
Orisa: Barrier to 800, cooldown to 8s.
Sigma: Barrier to 1000, regen speed increased.
Winston: Start with 50 extra HP and go from there.
Ball: 20% increase to cannon ROF.

Also, add in a rule that if you have more than one of Reinhardt, Orisa, Sigma barriers on your team take 30% more damage.

40

lets do some math
for this, double barrier is 1800 if it’s reduced by 30% then double barrier is just 1260 hp total
currently, double barrier is 1500

i mean, this is an interesting way to sledgehammer the comp. It kills it off to a percent lower than Reinhardt’s shield but overall leaves a net negative since you’re weaker using them.
it’s not a perfect solution but in terms of not restricting two shield tanks, it works i guess

honestly, i say just leave reinhardt’s shield the same but go through with everything else. Rein doesn’t need a lower shield and using two shields grants a negative so theres no point in him needing to be weaker anyway if the other tanks get stronger independantly

41

That’s not how you make the Tank Role more popular, which is needed to fix queue times.

42

Why are we constantly relying on these gimmicks?

If you’re already willing to venture into drastic changes just to stop Orisa-Sigma, all you need in order to remove Orisa-Sigma’s barrier cycling, is to allow Orisa to better function as a solo maintank (e.g. to increase maximum barrier HP) WITHOUT significantly increasing her SPS.

Put simply, you make her barrier system function more alike to the others by putting it on a resource system, rather than a pure cooldown.

Rein’s max SPS: 160
Sigma’s max SPS: 94.74.
Orisa’s max SPS: 60.

Give Orisa’s barrier even up to 900 HP and reduce the cooldown to 4-8 seconds and allow it to be cancelled via the F key or whatnot, but have it take 14 seconds to recover that full amount (75 SPS, but degraded as with Rein’s and Sigma’s by recovery delay that reduces it to an effective 64 SPS at most), and voila, she can space-hold “more like a main-tank” without being any more oppressive over time in an Orisa-Sigma comp.

43

How about giving BarrierTanks less HP, but more Firepower with strong Barriers.

That way they are more fun/autonomous.

They function perfectly well in SingleBarrier.

But with DoubleBarrier, you risk getting runover by high mobility comps, that just get into close range, and walk right past the barriers.

And as an added bonus, DoubleOffTank has advantages with raw HP sizes.

  • Orisa/Sigma = 350hp, Stronger barrier, 14% more firepower, Weaker fortify/grasp
  • Rein = 400hp, Stronger barrier, 7% more firepower, 14% more barriered mobility
  • Mei = Tank, 350hp, 100selfheal, 10sec wall
    • So she can’t Peel for DoubleBarrier.
  • Off Tanks and Winston = 1sec less on a cooldown
    :white_check_mark: Fixing BarrierTanks and OffTanks
44

Those are two words that probably should never be used synonymously. I can only hope you mean the latter in a very different way than most use it.

The problem is, by giving Orisa-Sigma more firepower, you just pressured out the very solution you’re talking about.

That’s not a meaningful advantage in any way except to enemy ult-charge and Deathmatch sh*ts&giggles play.

45

There, I fixed that for you. He is not OP in the game; he is however OP relative to the rest of the tanks at the moment.

46

Without steadfast it’s hellish playing him. You literally can’t play the game in many situations. Boops haven’t been nerfed. He needs to be in melee range to do anything more than being a barrier, unlike the other tanks.

47

Accomplishing things without being reliant on team members to allow you to do it, is both autonomy, and generally Fun.

Not being allowed to do fun stuff unless multiple teammates simultaneously support you and position with you, in solo queue, and then only getting to do fun stuff just before the end of the fight, is a recipe for a lot of unfun games.

Speedboost and a D.va Matrix don’t really care how much damage is getting thrown your way.

Ditto for Deflect and Grasp.

It ain’t perfect, but it’s something.

A 350hp Orisa, and 350hp Sigma, vs a 900hp equivalent Roadhog and a 600hp D.va can get pretty ugly for the DoubleBarrierTank team.

48

i dont need you “fixing” my quotes. he’s not even OP in relation to the other tanks i feel

49

Yeah, you did actually. We didn’t have all this Rein overplay until he didn’t get proportionately nerfed with the other tanks. If he weren’t he wouldn’t be constantly picked over other tanks. Remember when Sigma was better and no one wanted Rein? Same problem. Blizz failed to nerf him enough, so naturally, he becomes the go-to tank for everyone.

50

i also dont need you telling me what i need. this ain’t sonic rush

only reason im making this is because people cant get their head out of their ends about how tanks are supposed to be played now. People try to play orisa like a main tank as if the nerfs never happened and wonder why they dont find any success.
reinhardt hardly showed any playtime in the OWL tournament over the weekend in favor of dive and double shield

when was this ever?

they didn’t need to nerf him over the top, i explain why he shouldn’t be and still doesn’t need to be

51

Rein is overplayed on ladder. There is a much more even split in OWL where balance is relevant. So… no, he is absolutely correct.

52

You will be challenged on this.

53

and when might that be?

54

if you can’t see how much easier it is to block shatters as Rein yourself, then we can’t really discuss anything further.

1 Like
55

Rein being OP like this has totally ruined tanking for me, and I’ve never wanted to play Rein less than I do now.

Also, notably, when Orisa was OP I stopped enjoying her and played other heroes instead, including Zarya.

1 Like
56

My point is that I know I am right about it, and so do many other people who recognize the issue was in-equal balancing as will step up and challenge your thinking. IIRC its even been discussed by folks in video commentary like Sty and KarQ.

Sigma was considered a bitter pick than Rein in his most powered state, to the point people complained why take Rein with literally Sigma did everything he did but better. It wasn’t long ago, search the forums if you want.

57

Stopped reading right there. By himself without Ana, Lucio, Zarya I agree he’s not OP, but with the help of any 1 of those he steamrolls teams.

He’s too good yet Sigma got nerfed for the same reasons. It’s a double standard, that’s what’s frustrating.