The problem with the megathreads is at least the current megathread is either locked or just ignored. I know you disagree that the devs are ignoring Mercy, but I scrolled through the entire megathread and there is not a single dev or even mod responding. I personally would be satisfied with a, “we see her stats and we are reading, we are looking into her but are focusing on other heroes at the moment” or something similar. I think a small statement that is addressing concerns with her current state would lower “spam” and also make it so mercy main will look at the megathread more than a trash bin. Mercy mains want to be heard and not having any reassurance that they are being heard causes spam and anger. Yes, that anger is pointed towards the devs as they are the ones people want to hear from and the ones with the power to make changes. It’s frustrating when you have no control over a situation and no reassurance that a ton of thought out ideas and replies are even being read.
I have no personally seen anyone attacking other communities for getting reworks before her. So I won’t comment on that nor do I think attacking other communities is okay.
I haven’t seen the gatekeeper thing either so same response as above ^.
I’ve seen arguments for fun but I wouldn’t call them weak as they point out what makes her not fun. Some examples would be her healing prevents her from ziping back and forth and she is incapable of making big plays. Impactful you didn’t comment on. Just when on about how fun is subjective. Impactful I think is not a weak argument as she is not at all impactful in the game. She is pretty capped at what she can do and there’s not really any space for her to make big plays. The biggest play I can make as Mercy right now is stalling a point with valk but that’s about it. Doing something like garv and ending a team fight is impactful and that’s one of the things that makes Zarya fun, with Mercy ? You get a rez off but someone else dies. She just lacks impact which also makes her lack fun.
Mercy mains are spamming threads because they are unhappy. I do understand that it is annoying, but the spam does show that people want to heard and replied to. I think it’s a good thing to share thoughts with each other within the community.
I agree that Mercy mains need to stop trash talking the devs. The way to bring change in the game is by working with the developers, not against them. A lot of Mercy players complain that the developers are ignoring them, but I think it can be agreed that when you are constantly being insulted, you don’t want to help the people insulting you.
As for the attacks on other communities who have recieved reworks, it sucks that this happens. Whether Mercy mains like it or not, just because she is complained about frequently doesn’t mean she is the dev’s top priority. There are plenty of other characters that need change. Torb has been needing a rework for a long time now, and it is a good thing that he is getting a rework. Not everything is about Mercy.
There are lots of people who like the rework. However, some people are very toxic towards Mercy mains and tell them to pick another hero that takes “skill”. It causes a lot of frustration between Mercy mains and the rest of the community. There seems to be a sense that Mercy mains are hated by everybody who isn’t a Mercy main. It leads to the Mercy community dishing out hate towards people that have no ill will towards people who play her. I’ve definitely run into very toxic people who don’t accept any constructive criticism, but there are also Mercy mains doing the exact same thing to others.
And as for the arguement about Mercy not being fun or impactful, I honestly agree with it. There are plenty of people who enjoy playing Mercy, and continue to do so. Personally, I find myself picking other supports a lot more than I used to, because Mercy feels lackluster compared to them. Of course, not everybody feels this way, but I find myself reluctant to pick mercy when I could pick another support instead. The only times I pick her are when my team asks.
I think Mercy mains are just upset that their hero has bren nerfed so much. I don’t blame them, however as the problems drags out, everbody is becoming more and more frustrated wih each other. Mercy mains are lashing out at developers, while the rest of the community(not all, of course) is lashing out at “the annoying Mercy mains who keep spamming”. Mercy mains won’t stop the spam until changes are made. It’s difficult to determine what would be the best solution to this.
Not exclusive no. But they are the most pronounced. Which makes the inclusion of mercy in the title relevant if not necessary to address the bulk of those who have similar problems.
How do you act on an entire group of different users creating a single thread a piece. This one is blatantly clear. Spamming is when you as a individual repeat your actions over and over again.
Which is an entirely different circumstance then 100 different people creating 100 different threads.
Only when it comes to mercy though. Why? Because no other group in the forums has created such a mass amount of these threads to warrant that kind of action. Even Brig has not reached the level of spam we have seen from the mercy community.
Which wy the way. To my knowledge none of those threads resulted in a ban. Most were just closed or moved into the megathread for mercy.
Yes, and I am explaining to you that the context of what he is speaking of is not straight up attack threads where they are insulting dev’s but rather being disrespectful in more subtle ways that are not against CoC.
Yes… such as
Which is the same thing. Which is not against CoC.
How would he do this on the forums? How would addressing it one person at a time work. That would be what I would call “toiling in obscurity”. You are essentially saying “Empty the ocean of problems by using a thimble!”.
There are people in this very topic guilty of gatekeeping.
Mercy main’s do not exclusively get a say on mercy. Now, this a tame example. But I have seen people straight up tell others they shouldn’t have a say because of their hours on mercy.
Now the reason I feel impactful is subjective is that because people feel the impact of certain things moreso than others. When I am mercy and get a successful rez despite it leaving me open and that rez led to us confirming an objective, that feels impactful to me. Some people it may not feel that way. Overall though, I am glad you were honest. I can agree, that maybe the devs should be more vocal with what they are doing. However, sometimes i feel like they are in a bind. Because if they post something these vocal people don’t like, its just going to flair another storm.
Actually, the problem with mass res was the fact that they made her invulnerable while casting. It encouraged Mercy to hide more and laugh in the enemy’s faces when her team came back to life and destroyed them.
But, that said, Mass Resurrect has counters now; especially if they give it a 2 second cast time or something but with damage reduction to pull it off easier.
Brigitte can stun her, McCree can stun her, Hammond can just throw his ultimate down where the mass res took place. ETC.
Also, most resses were 2-3 people. Not five.
That’s like saying most Junkrat tires are 5-6 man.
But if they name is dev, they will get hit with the ban hammer.
It really isn’t the same. One is attacking a group of people whilst the other is just being entitled. Also, from my personal experiences, that bullet point really should not be applied to Mercy mains. We literally, from what I see, get more people saying, “Why are people complaining about Mercy when other heroes have had it worse”. That being said, I’m aware that this isn’t a non-Mercy player exclusive problem.
He would do it by replying to someone who meets the criteria of one of his bullet points. He doesn’t need to copy and paste his entire post for every person. All he needs to do is paraphrase it.
To be fair the contents of the post is pretty respectful, the title is just click bait, but fairly so- a lot of posts really aren’t being seen unless it has Mercy on it. <<
No, I totally get that not everyone likes Mercy’s current state. Totally understandable. I absolutely get it. I mean my main problem is just the actions taken by parts of the community. That was all this was made to address. You can ask most people who know me, this is a very calm and well thought out post (which is very unlike me) I am not trying to rile up hate. I am trying to help people communicate their problems, and why people like me, may be outright dismissive of things being said. I would love for this to be a non issue.
The issue is the devs wording. They don’t provide any reassurance and in the past will say, “we think she is fine” and then nerf her again. For a lot of people it’s viewed as them “lying”. There’s not much trust left with the devs and Mercy mains and I think the devs making an effort to rebuild that trust would be helpful to well everyone. It does feel good to get a successful rez off esp when it leads to confirming an object, but it’s small. There’s nothing game changing about Mercy. Ana can be game changing with sleep dart, nano, and anti nade. Moira can slaughter a team and keep her team alive. Moira’s ult isn’t the most impactful but it heals and damages and becomes impactful because she gets it so quick (Mercy’s charge time is so slow esp with her healing reduced.) I can see how you can view impactful as subjective, but when you think of it objectively, it’s about being game changing and she’s not really capable of that. Every single hero can carry, whether that’s directly or indirectly. Supports like Ana usually carry indirectly by making big plays allowing your team to take advantage. Mercy doesn’t really have that besides maybe rezing someone with an ult.
I agree. The way you’re going about the issue isn’t hateful or targeting any specific person. The problem lies within other people in the community, who aren’t so respectful to each other. While I generally agree with Mercy mains, there are so many of them who respond to criticism with even more hate. Anonymity does crazy things to people…
Honestly, Mercy is in a really weird spot right now. I defended the first changes done to her, and I defended the nerf’s that came afterwards, because I did think she needed them. However, I don’t like where she is currently, her heals are pretty bad, basically only making her useful for her res currently, but it’s not worth it when you can have any of the other supports be better than her, all around. She feels like Symmetra pre-rework, ya you can pick her, but you could pick someone a lot better, and more useful for your team. I honestly feel like they should just take her res out of the game, and give her an ability that allows her to pull players out of danger, for a short distance, or something. You can’t balance a res ability, and you can’t try to balance it by making her a trash pick.
Part of the value behind feedback is the experience it comes from. It doesn’t mean you can’t have an opinion but, it does influence the value that feedback has.
You’ll find my posts tend to include disclaimers if I haven’t spent significant time on the hero or played it seriously. I’m not out to get people necessarily but, I do feel the time you spend on something does influence the value of the feedback. I’ve played heros I hate like Tracer because I don’t think you can get a full understanding on how to kill a character without also playing them at least a little and that it matters even more when you talk about balancing a character.
For example, one of the users in this thread has posted two topics in the last 36 hours on how to change Sym. He’s logged 9 minutes of time as her in Quick Play . He’s never that I can tell from Overbuff used her in competitive play.
He did/does a similar thing with Mercy where he barely played the hero recently but, constantly commented on it and made like twenty topics in the span of two months.
The Mercy feedback has been going on for well over a year.
Here’s the first PTR thread that went for 260 pages and had little/no developer response.
You’ll notice a few common names between then and now.
You’ll also see that some players opinions on the re-work have shifted while others have been saying pretty much the same thing over and over from the start.
I’m in the latter camp. You can see my post in the main thread below.
The developer lack of response/missing the point has been a common theme with the Mercy rework. We’ve probably had well over 100,000 posts on Mercy without much of a response. You’ve got a fair bit of spam but, you’ve got posts people put effort into.
When interview by Venture Beat in November, the lead developer talked about what he and the staff at Blizzard saw in the Mercy Feedback:
It was really interesting, because we put the changes on the PTR (public test realm), and the PTR feedback we got when we had Valkyrie now was twofold. We heard from non-Mercy players, now all Mercy is is a DPS damage machine, killing machine, and that’s all she’s gonna be. That’s why the changes on the PTR weren’t good. And what we heard from the Mercy community was just, the character’s unplayable now without five-person resurrect, she’s useless and nobody will ever pick her. Nobody was really identifying, hey, res happens really frequently now, maybe it’s actually more powerful than it was before? Obviously, quickly, as a community, we got to that point.
Our goal now is to lessen the impact of resurrect. We’ve had times where we’re just trying to change a character without changing the power level. We are very intentionally trying to bring the power level of resurrect down. We want the top two things you notice about Mercy to be, “Oh my God, she’s an amazing throughput healer,” and “Wow, look at that mobility, she’s just flowing back and forth through the map.” And we don’t want her to be the resurrect bot that’s just erasing kills.
(Source:)
Needless to say, this was quite frustrating. I was not the only person that pointed out that Mercy was more powerful due to res and they’d missed that not only in the initial feedback passes but, they’d never bothered to do an autopsy to see what went wrong.
I’d spent around 20 hours on the PTR to give it a fair shake and I really wish I’d just spent the time on live and gotten to spend few more matches with Mass Res.
The understanding of where people were coming from was also off. Some of the players that disliked Mercy killing people were Mercy players that liked her to be a pacifist and not all the non-Mercy players minded it. While some of the Mercy players were upset and felt they’d be ineffective without Mass Res, you had a variety of other opinions with players that liked the new version better and thought she’d be similar in effectiveness, players that liked the new version and felt she’d be stronger, and players that disliked the new version and thought it’d be stronger.
Everybody makes mistakes from time to time the lead developer’s choice not to rapidly work to fix things or even figure out how things went wrong to prevent them from happening to other heros are a real issue.
If you are upset by the title then you are not looking at the actual meat and potatoes of the thread. You’ve judged a book by its cover and as a result you were not likely to give this any serious thought to begin with. Which means even if the title had not said “mercy” in it you would have likely remained as close minded as before.
A single user creating duplicate threads is against the CoC. However, you are being willfully obtuse on what is being said. I am referring to people creating threads talking about EXACTLY the same thing. Not as in word for word identical
way but conceptually the same thing.
Sure, please point me to the sombra mega thread, or the bastion megathread, and etc that the mods have been moving all of the other topics into? So no, the only group that has been “spammy” enough to create the need to act on it has been mercy. Should point out to how bad the mercy community has gotten.
I am not disagreeing with this at all? Are you reading my post at all?
This sentence reeks of deflection.
Yes, making ENTITLED threads that ATTACK other hero’s for being worked on INSTEAD OF THEIRS is not against the CoC. But it contributes heavily to the negative atmosphere that is being created by mercy mains who make these kind of threads.
Virticon is referring to non-coc breaking threads that STILL contribute to negative feelings that are being created. See something that is breaking CoC? By all means report it. However, that does not subtract from the fact that there are plenty of ways to avoid breaking the CoC while ALSO being a negative influencer. Are we clear on this?
ineffectual at best. The purpose of a forum is not to reach one person at a time. The purpose of a forum is to share thoughts on a mass scale and reach as many people as possible. In this case Virticon is hoping to effect some kind of change on a MASS SCALE.
You cannot solve a problem that is MASSIVE by addressing it one person a time. A MASSIVE problem has be addressed with a MASSIVE response. To think otherwise is just delusional.
I want to throw in a thank you for being more respectful about this post. It is a post about more or less not likely a ton of Mercy threads on the forums, but it provided room for discussion rather than just blatant “fU mErCY MaiNs iM aNNoyED” lol
Hey! I didn’t read your reply because I’m super tired and I’m pretty sure the OP doesn’t want me here. I’ll just say, you probably are right but I wouldn’t know so let’s just agree to disagree. With that, I take my leave. Have a nice day everyone!
Ha not a problem. I dislike that sort of stuff. I know most of us can agree, we like this game. And I know that’s why some people get so passionate that a character they like has gone through a change. I really wanted this post to be a reminder to those upset to not be blinded by their passion.
Ehh i actually read your post some parts 2 times or more and
These two specific statements are my favorites since you clearly identify some problems that arent relegated to one group and could happen to anyone but people are steadfast with their beliefs and ideals so it’s hard to change an individual’s perspective its great that you pointed it out and your paragraphs are nice
one problem I had was
Trusty not trust I’m aware you clarified this already but it just bothers me anyway
do keep in mind that during the height of the mercy rework that mercy mains were constantly harassed by other players, calling them filthy mercy mains, or moth mains, moth meta, no aim no brain, etc.