Absolutely not. Take anti. Take nano. Sleep is way too iconic. It can’t go away.
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It does no such thing. When the complaints of dps are unreasonable, they delegitimize their own complaints themselves. You’ll find I have been quite consistent in agreeing that Bap, Ana, Illari and Kiriko all need nerfs in one area or another. You’ll find the majority also agree with this.
Is that so? Is that not what is being requested when nerfs are proposed to every area of every support’s kit, including their health and damage output? Is that not what’s being requested when someone says that all supports dps should be halved?
When someone makes it very clear what they want, am I to interpret that as not actually being what they want?
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Why does he have to oneshot ana? I kill ana plenty on genji and i rarely dash in and oneshot her. Its not needed.
All you gotta do is time it well and she will die if she aint getting pocketed by the other support. Make her use her abilities before you commit to killing her makes it a whole lot more favourable. Even if you dont get the kill, you got all of her abilities out that won’t be used on your tank now.
When i play ana i kill genji’s on a regular basis because they think im a free kill. Little do they know i spend 150 hours practicing to dueling/peel for myself to get out of silver back in ow1. When i was done i climbed to 2800 in a week from being hardstuck 1700-1900 sr for 5+ seasons.
In ow1 i didn’t have a support passive and probably didn’t have nade nearly as much as i do now.
Now though i almost feel bad for them, except that i can kill ana’s often enough on genji myself because i time it well so…
There is this really weird middle ground between people having to accept that a lot of the current complains about supports and most proposed nerfs are grossly over-exaggerated (if not outright unhinged and caustic with bruised egos), and still trying to pretend that normal sane people are somehow the delusional ones for pointing out that no, they are not going to obsolete any of the heroes being complained about.
Personally I believe that most of those supports are fine when you engage on their intended counterplay and take the wins you are intended to get against them - but this does not sit well with DPS players that only want 1v2+ kills with their main and dont value anything else or try anything else.
Wouldnt mind rational nerfs to the 4 mentioned heroes, but at the same time its hard to actually excuse them when it has been made very clear that those complainers assumed those 4 heroes would get obsoleted, and its time to complain about LW and Mercy because you cant 1v2+ them when they are peeling for each other.
‘‘DPS one tricks dont want supports being capable of anything that endangers them or their kills’’ becomes more and more clear the longer people show their true colors.
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It does, thats why you specifically said “supports should just be victims to their potg” or something along those lines. Like I said that sort of nonsense has always come from supports.
And you’ll also find that a lot, if not most dps have no problems with zen and Lucio Brigitte or even mercy and Ana (at least I have no problem even with them), so why even bring up “some dps just want supports to be free.”
Show me a list of nerfs wanted by dps, I’ll even take the list of the fringe ones.
The funny thing is that there isnt anything other than ‘‘halve all their numbers’’, ‘‘remove X ability’’ and ‘‘delete/rework’’ so far.
Its the people who arent raging and blaming supports for their losses the ones that are suggesting middle ground, reasonable nerfs.
So far very few have even tried to answer the ‘‘How are supports OP’’ question with anything other than exaggerations and outright lying off the wazoo, like calling Illari’s pylon massive healing.
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Actually there has been more reasonable ones like removing the passive, which supports don’t even want.
Personally I’m not even asking for nerfs, yet, but to just give dps the same passive. That gets support players freaked out too, including you iirc haha because omg flankers!
Removing a whole passive out of an entire role where half the role was basically obsolete without peel is not reasonable, its literally razed ground levels of unhinged. Specially when there is zero proposed compensation for heroes that are already crap like Brig and Moira… mostly because it circles back to the ‘‘actually all supports are OP and none needs compensation, and all DPS are bad and poor meows meows’’ argument.
The passive was added because of a game condition that still hasnt been changed. Supports are being balanced around DPS players actually having to put effort and not just onetrick their way into victory.
I am a DPS main through and through. My most played support in OW2 is LW and even there its like… half the time of my most played DPS (Symmetra and Hanzo, tied).
Its been really obnoxious to play support when tanks and DPS refuse to counterpick so we are stuck with a Rein and Soldier/Tracer shooting and hammering a Orisa for 10 minutes with no real results.
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I’m all good with DPS getting the same passive. It won’t help them, but I’m good if they do get it.
3.5 seconds of them being out of combat to start getting healing is a long long long time to start getting back 15 health / second. If you think a flanker will wait for 5.5 seconds to get 30 health back, I don’t think that is the case.
But fill your boots man, I’m happy if you get it.
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We dont need the safe meta DPS getting even more free value for being hard to interact with. Imagine Widow or Tracer shrugging off most damage you land on them after 2s.
Remember that the passive had Lucio being ludicrously hard to kill while Zen was still garbage? The same principle applies here.
DPS had a strong passive during beta, and it was one tricks who despised it because it was only useful when you played more than 1 hero all match. Scandalous!
It won’t have kicked it at 2s.
It’s 3.5 seconds before it even starts, and then only 15 hps after that.
I’m seriously not worried. If you Tracer leaves you alone for 5.5 seconds to get 30 health back, rather than getting a health pack, that is a win 
The only reason it works for support, is they can get gaps like that where they take no damage, and still have some kind of effect in the game.
Seriously, let them have it.
yes it can its the most unhealthy ability in the game.
It will if they can avoid getting hit during that time - being hard to interact with is already their strength, and what makes them strong in high ranks. Giving the support passive to every DPS would basically compound that strength, while making it a cosmetic change for heroes that cant easily disengage from a fight while being hard to hit.
Looks it up (sorry it wasn’t 3.5 seconds but 2 seconds.)
Recover 15HP per second after not receiving damage for 2 seconds.
Sorry, at 2 seconds they will have healed… oh… nothing.
So…
It isn’t a continual healing. It is ONLY if they have taken literally no damage for 2 seconds for it to even kick in.
So in your example,
At the 2 second mark, it’s nothing. literally nothing.
After that it is 15 hps.
They want to lose their reload speed? sure.
I fully agree with the actual premise of the thread, and learned it long ago, ironically, when arguing with Sombra mains about the Sombra/Lucio interaction.
There is a bizarre tendency among many DPS folks (tanks too) to consider a “no kill” as an unacceptable failure. The deprivation of the dopamine hit of securing a kill is considered a “problem”.
That is faulty thinking, however there is a lot of truth in that escape tools are fairly consistently being used to press offense. And that probably is a bad thing.
When you chase Lucio away, he scurries off and has to take some time to get back to full, even when using Amp. This is reasonable, as the person being engaged ALSO survives and has a break in action
There are several break points with supports where a quick escape turns into offensive advantage, and the notion of aggressive…hunting support using survival upgrades offensively while simultaneously being top notch healing kind of violates the nature of being “supports”.
It’s why Zen and Lucio are considered ok, since they both have considerable drawbacks to accompany their dueling prowess (and in Lucio’s case, his dueling prowess mostly requires ambush advantage, and even then there is considerable risk and most often a requirement for a skill mismatch).
Problem areas are:
Bap’s Regen field, especially the low health boost and damage per round.
Illari’s hitbox size of her ammo and pylon.
Moira’s fadejump
Kiriko’s teleport
Ana’s “do everything” nade
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That is still more than enough to stop some 2 taps. Specially in Widow’s case.
But even if you are right and it has no effect in combat, it still heavily benefits heroes that can quickly disengage at the drop of a hat, while having almost no benefit for heroes that have to actually commit.
Can we not empower already strong heroes while giving near nothing to DPS that are struggling?
What? again, LITERALLY it has don’t no healing. It hasn’t done a damn thing in this case.
If that is what the DPS want so they can say “oh the supports don’t have an advantage, it is on us that we can’t actually do damage to them” I’m willing for it.
It isn’t as if helped all the supports the same amount either.
Besides they will do what they always do, and nerf down the heroes which get the most benefit from it. (See Mercy when she got the passive).
If they LITERALLY want Widow to be nerfed more because they have self healing, I’m keen. You watch me smile as they do it.
They want self healing as part of their power budget, I’m so for that, you have no idea.
They will hate it of course, but, don’t stop them when they are doing something stupid. It is the only way they learn.
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Then learn to peel. Supports are naturally positioned to do that. They constantly cry for it but don’t bother to provide it.
Moira is a tutorial hero. She would still serve her purpose at low rank even without the passive. Brigitte also has barrier and self healing from attack.
You have quite literally defended supports at every turn and complain about dps not named symmetra, and I guess hanzo idk. The passive that would benefit dps, you don’t want because sym already kind of has it, but other dps having it will make sym harder. That’s your problem with it.
Depends. As someone who plays Echo (who is one of those DPS that has to commit) fairly often, believe me when I say I’d give my right arm to be able to disengage from a fight and heal myself rather than go searching for a health pack or spamming “HEAL ME PLEASE” while my Moira is trying to right-click a Mei and my Lucio is spamming “WHOO! HIT ME!” while riding 10,000 miles away.
Granted, if it doesn’t happen, that’s fine too. I agree with you that Widow doesn’t need more power.
I very specifically said that this was the belief of some dps. Not all. No role is a hivemind.
And yet there are still those pushing for all supports to be nerfed, alongside the removal of the support passive.
Why bring it up? Because I was raising a point in opposition to the notion that if a Genji could kill a Support 90% of the time, risk free, that it wouldn’t be very fun due to the lack of challenge.
I’ll go digging for some posts. In the meantime, you’ll have to settle for the ones already mentioned which are to remove the support passive, nerf all support damage by half, and nerf support survivability.
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