Agreed. I was talking about how strong supports were against Tank at all levels. They tried to pivot it to DPS.
I love a bit of Junkrat Kings Row. It used to be by far my best map, even more so than Junks so called best niche maps like Lijiang Control.
I can play Reaper and have fun as well. Hanzo is pain but oh well, I will take it over another 30-40m sightlines any day of the week. Although I agree with the mob that Lijang Control is the best for Junk. Pretty much the entire map are choke points and small corridors, no matter where he spams someone will walk into his grenades eventually. For example Zarya 
I think Anaâs nade damage should be switched to an over-time effect. At least the healing side of it. Damage side could be faster than Asheâs TNT burn but still gives time for it not to be an instant advantage, especially if she can do it over sleep
Sorry Iâm too busy trying to jump scare their Ana instead of shooting down corridors like Iâm supposed to 
Kings Row is better for that.
All the problematic supports in high ranks can do the same stuff in low ranks with exception of the LW and Mercy maaaybe Kiriko. Bap and Illari can just as easily kill people in low ranks as they can in high ranks. Ana can toss nades at enemy tank in low elo when two teams are clashing together as well. Brig for sure can survive dive from Winston in low elo just as easily as in high ranks. You donât need team coordination to make strong supports work. Thatâs partialy why they are strong lol
Mercy has no agency of her own and is entirely dependant on her team doing stuff. Itâs the case in high elo as well. Try playing Bap, Zen, Ana or Illari or anything with strong agency and then talk about âsilver being harder than diamondâ. Itâs not. Mercy is just a hero for duo queueing.
No, because itâs the ability entirely dependant on someone else output. Since itâs main way of Mercy doing damage she is forever doomed to be dependant on her team. Itâs the case in âhighly coordinated ranksâ as well.
There is no way you are not getting value out of discord if you discord the right targets⌠Donât tell me silver players donât shoot stuff. You donât need to coordinate dive to get value out of damage boost. Just discord something your dps or tank is currently fighting and you improved their damage by 25%. On top of that you improved your own damage by 25%⌠Even if my team wasnât shooting at all I would get value out of it because dealing 60 dmg per orb vs 48 is a pretty big deal. Also free wall hack.
If you are discording something that your team isnât able to damage you are doing bad job on Zen. Itâs not up to you to discord targets and yell at your team to jump on that target. No. People are fighting stuff and you discord that stuff. I donât care if Soldier on the top is discorded when Iâm currently hooking their tank. Discord the tank in that situation and voilĂ you achieved team coordination. Your Rein is swinging at something? Discord that thing and you have team coordination. Discord stuff people are shooting, donât demand them to switch targets to stuff you are discording.
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What is considered âlow valueâ is not always the full picture.
Iâll use your scenario as an example
So you are Genji, and you dash into the enemy backline to engage with the enemy Ana. She gets a shot in, you deflect her sleep dart away, you hit her a bit, she anti-nade\s the ground and now you are almost dead and she just healed herself so you need to retreat.
You somehow make it out and try to get to the nearest health pack and get your CDs back. In this time Ana is able to heal to full just by existing due to the passive and continues to heal her team and perhaps position herself closer to them because she knows you are nearby.
By the time you get your abilities and health back, assuming it was a full 250 health pack, she will also likely have at least anti-nade back.
In this scenario, even though dash and deflect are less impactful than sleep and anti-nade, Ana comes out on top because she was able to take you out of the fight completely, meanwhile, she is still able to support her team while you are recouping.
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Yup, pretty much this. Almost dead flanker needs to regroup with his team or look for the healthpack, itâs his downtime. One hp Ana can just break LOS with enemies while keeping LOS with her team and support them. Genji is getting 0 value, Ana is doing her job even while being low. Thatâs not a big value play from Genji unless someone else can follow up on the dive and finish that Ana off.
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I didnât say that actually. weâre talking about supports here
and i hate it because it feels unbalanced on the defence side
even then supports in gm are winning against dps alot of the time i can tell you because im gm3 as support and beat alot of dps in 1v1outside Bastion
Thereâs literally no way to fix this âproblemâ, though
Defensive abilities, such as healing allies, is always going to be easier to do and require unbroken consistency. Even if Ana only healed 10 HPS, it would still be easier for her to sit behind cover and shoot her own teammates than it would be for enemies to shoot her. Your teammates WANT to be shot by you â your enemies donât.
Of course. I just explain why âbaiting out cooldownsâ isnât worth anything unless your team finishes the job and gets the kill on the support which abilities you baited out. Itâs especially felt on tank role in general which are really good at forcing out resources but before they get back in the action, enemy supports have their resources again and itâs never ending cycle of nothing dying and just trading abilities. You need your team to kill stuff when you force out the cooldowns. Thatâs not the case with support like Zen who you can just kill without asterisks attached. Or supports like Lucio through which healing you can kill.
Of course itâll still continue. This forum wouldnât stop whining about bapâs damage and immortality field even back in OW1. And back then, DPS used to do WAY more damage than they do now (at least flankers like tracer). And yes, the second most complained support hero after bap was ana. Even though anti-heal was less effective against two tanks than one.
The law of averages states, though, that if you do it enough times, youâre going to get results. A single case of you baiting out cooldowns and your teammates doing nothing isnât going to say much versus if you do it 4 times consecutively and the 4th results in your team stomping with a teamwipe.
It sucks from the âyou get no immediate satisfaction and that isnât funâ aspect, but one of the necessary evils of a team game is that if your team just arenât helping you, itâs going to be hard to have fun regardless.
High sustain cooldowns and healing in general makes it that way. Like I said - Zen has to outplay you to win. Most of the supports just press their buttons to survive the engagement and as we established, they get value by existing unlike other roles who need to fight to generate value. Forced out Genji is doing nothing. Forced out Ana is still healing from different position. So what do we do about it? Either nerf their healing so itâs possible to kill stuff through healing without ridiculous amounts of burst damage or nerf sustain of supports. Support passive is a big part of why they feel a lot more broken in OW2 than in OW1. If you donât kill them they will regenerate their hp passively without cooldowns before you are healthy enough to engage again.
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Sure, but he tends not to do that. Thereâs a reason why Zen â even the best Zens with the ability to click on heads â has the reputation of being a âvulnerableâ Support. He tends to compete with Brigitte for the most deaths per game.
This tends not to happen, though. Lower healing metas have, historically, only made burst damage MORE appealing as an option. Not less. Dive, for example, was one of the lowest-healing metas in the game but it still focused entirely on bursting one target down instantly. Even if we, say, removed Mercy and Zenâs damage boosts, high level players would just shift their attention to Lucio and/or damage-based Supports to delete enemy teams as quickly as possible.
Iâm mostly impartial when it comes to the Support passive, to be honest. I donât think itâs the boogeyman people are claiming it to be. Hell, I even think it would be nice to experiment with DPS giving for the reasons you gave before â it sucks to have to disengage a fight and either hide in a corner until your Supports find you or go scavenging for a health pack.
I donât think Overwatch 2 has evolved into the type of game where non-death downtime should be a constant factor.
Sounds like it when you complain about supports with âlow skill disengage abilitiesâ
Completely agree w/OP. Yâall complaining that DPS canât run around and win every 1v1 miss the entire point of balance. Support is to keep team alive, not heal; DPS goal is to win, not get kills. Stop being glory hound hero wannabes and try playing as a team.
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dps should have the advantage in a 1v1 i think you missing the point of balance. if dps cant win a 1v1 against support what are the for litteraly nothing
ya but they heal to do that
thats everyones goal and dps main goal as a dps is to get kills
so what is a dpsâs job if its not to get kills all you have said is dps is basicly usless and played just to fill slots