This meme has to end, mostly because its 100% not true and cringe at this point.
My guy the “skill issue” can’t be applied when something is happening across ALL ranks with ALL types of players. Everyone knows this. Check any T500 streamer ever.
Support mains playing on DPS are laughable, barely get close to masters. A GM DPS main using Supports? Easy GM in less than 1 week. The truth is just there, refusing to see it is just plain denial.
Yes, but utility cooldowns should be rare enough for this to matter. The problem is that each support has one or two fight-winning utility cooldowns, each on a timer short enough that you need to bait them all out in order to bring sustain down to a level your team can overcome without an ult fiesta.
It used to be the case where if you made Ana use sleep/anti on you, you had a fair chance of taking that fight since the other support couldn’t turn you invincible or cleanse you or give you 100 HPS of healing from downtown–all of those things are in the game now, so sustain isn’t solely in a DPS/support vacuum.
Someone mentioned this in another thread (about grav, I think), where grav on its own isn’t a fight winning ult anymore unless you pile on a ton of ults to power through all the annoying sustain/defensive cooldowns flying around these days. It’s the bad old days of GOATS, but with only one tank.
Illari and Kiri can two tap most DPS. And if the fight’s not going in their favor? They both have low skill disengage abilities.
The best squishie duellist in the game is Bap and it’s not even close.
It does not matter if their damage is lower. Just by having the ability to do damage is in itself a stacked trait that other roles don’t have. I’m not against them having damage, but it should not be even remotely close to what it currently is, especially with how much healing they can output and how much self-sustain they have.
I don’t know what you’re referring to when you say “put down the pitchfork” as this is how I rationally respond to everyone. Even if I were to be upset, you actively enticed hate comments by saying provocative things like:
and this very ignorant and generalized statement about DPS, minimizing the different playstyles of different DPS heroes as if they can all do the same things with ease.
Sorry but supports being able to easily duel a dps designed to assasinate supports is bad design.
You cant have a role being able do do
And call it “fair”
If dps had the same abilities as supports when it comes to mobility or self sustain you would be crying for a nerf (and you would be right)
Imagine if your soldier could instantly go back to full HP with bap regenerative burst.
Or tracer could also use suzu.
Or hanzo getting healed when using his dash like lifeweaver.
Or echo dashing like mercy every 2.5seconds
Or mcree throwing antinades at his feets or to ennemies.
Hell…why not having kiriko teleport on reaper.
So he can flank like a dumb dumb and suddenly disappear.
Its not logical to give too much power to a single role.
(Also everything that is about tanking/reducing damage should be tank abilities, not supports)
what if i mostly win any 1v1?
(but i play support)
I remember winning a team fight 3v5 with a brig ana and sombra. I felt so bad for the enemy zarya because she just couldn’t kill me on brig and the enemy illari couldn’t hit a shot. Our ana went from like 20 hp to almost full between repair packs and nade twice until our tank got back. Sombra distracted 2 for a bit and the other 3 couldn’t kill an ana brig backline fast enough.
This was in masters btw. Anecdotal of course but it really feels like the difficulty of playing support vs every other role is just not remotely the same. I play brig and I’m afk half the game just procing inspire and throwing repair packs
The fact that you act like any of these supports have the killing capacity of any of the DPS listed is just kind of sad. It’s just not accurate and is a complete skewing of reality.
You ask why not give these other characters these types of abilities and the answer is because they’re very very efficient at killing, aside from poor Reaper. RIP.
Nope, just that most will be unwilling to heal because of all the whining about supports being to op, when they aren’t.
Top 500 play like that, and they see no problem with Bap/Ana. It’s a cooldown warfare there.
I think the average player has a fundamental misunderstanding of what this game is, and the changes that the developers are making are reinforcing this behavior.
This game makes a lot more sense when you view it from a broad moba-like meta perspective, but people just want to see it like cod where they go “pew pew” instead.
The irony of this statement is astonishing.
This is an FPS mate, not a CD / Flash / Ability cycle game to farm lanes and kill bases lol
Zen doesn’t do 0 healing
I suspect a lot of the supports are OP crowd will be disappointed by the upcoming nerfs. I suspect many of the claims about support damage and dueling capabilities aren’t being borne out in the actual game statistics. Predicting a few problem children in the role will get nerfs, but the majority of the role won’t be touched.
Fully expect the complaints to continue post nerfs.
Supports are great at killing as well.
Ask bap
Kiriko
Iliari
And even ana can duel most dps with her kit (if you 1v1 her and you end up slept, you lost)
Dude, that’s exactly the point of my post. You have to use your kit to be comparable.
Supports have to dump all of their utility and cooldowns into one dude to level out with a DPS. What exactly do you all want to be the win-conditioned for support? It seems like you want them to never be able to duel.
Not sure what happened with the quote there, but I’m about to drive so I can’t fix it now.
In no universe would someone want to be the role that just loses in a 1v1 scenario, if DPS want to win by default, they need to make 1v1’s extremely rare, in order for that to happen the game needs to be 8v8 or more. But in a universe where there is 5 players per team, saying 2 from each team should just lose is just insane.
Well, I never made any claims about Zen being balanced, but Zen also has one of the hardest projectiles to land in the game and he has a pretty low healing output of 30 HPS.
At most, he would need some slight tuning.
If I’m to take Season 1 for reference, they will be too busy trying to stay alive and peel for themselves first and foremost whenever they’re getting W’d on before being able to heal anyone but time will tell what kind of nerfs they’ll get.