The Inevitable Bastion Rework

For what reason exactly?

He can barely hit a Tank at 30 meters.
And being stationary, he needs to be able to defend himself.
And in all honesty demands respect of his immediate area.
(Once he’s allowed to set up.)

You aren’t supposed to be able to easily get close to one, Nor stand in an open area guarded by one.


I’ll apologize for sounding Blunt here, but as you can probably tell from my post count, I’ve been here for a Long time. And i’ve been here for one reason.

I want for my hero to be fun, balanced, and worth playing again.
That is my only goal.

Because I don’t want him to become oppressive. I think he is reasonably balanced right now, with a niche playstyle. The only thing I would change is his ult because it sucks.

A lot of the complaints I see come from people getting into long range fights against Pharah, and complaining they can’t beat her at 50m. Why are they even lettting Pharah engage them at 50m? That’s not how he is played.

It would be like complaining the WM can outsnipe Mercy.

Bastion needs minor buffs. The falloff buff was a glorious start for further bastion changes


Sincerely, The Brigitte Spaghetti Movement

His ult sucks too, Yea.

“Niche” Is no longer a valid argument without a “Niche” To actually talk about.
(And do not dare bring up “Shield breaking”)

And guess what… He used to have a VERY Small spread, And headshots.
It was so not oppressive, that he was still regarded as lower tier.

One of my biggest complaints involves the size of a control point.

I use Numbani as a reference, So… Here’s the set up:

If i am playing on Defense, and set up on the (Left) High ground above the control point, and a Widowmaker takes the doorway on the (Right) High ground, There is No Chance of killing her, nor even forcing her to back off, if i remain in sentry mode.

That’s about 30 meters or so… If even that depending on the scenario… Even 20 meters if we’re getting realistic with how most Bastion’s and Widow’s play.

No one should be able to very clearly stand Directly In line of sight of a Bastion, unpunished. Not at those ranges.

Which the scenario above basically means that if i stay in my fortified non moving state, I lose the area around me, Simply because i cannot Defend it from a basic push.

And keep in mind… That’s against One Other hero.
Usually… you’ll have at least three looking for ways to attack YOU And Only you.

That’s where you, as a player, have to find his niche. Situational awareness is key. Where are the enemy least expecting to see a surprise bastion? When are the enemy least expecting someone to roll a surprise bastion? The element of surprise is his strength, and where he shines the most. For me anyway, maybe you will find a niche for him that works better for you. For me, it’s pulling him out when no-one expects it.

Well luckilly Bastion also has recon mode, which you should be using. People who aren’t using his full potential can’t really complain about his lack of potential. Even so, he can force her back at 30m as long as she hasn’t already got him in her sights. If he has the drop on her, he can push her back and reposition when she ducks inside.

Who says? This seems like one of those rules that people state without any basis or explanation. If you already know you can be outsniped, then why position yourself where you are vulnerable to snipers? In that scenario, he could sit on the other end of the bridge and fire down on players trying to get onto the point from behind while they are focused on your team on the point. You are dividing their attention and creating a deadly firezone.

I have over 100 hours on the hero… And i’m still looking.

It’s not about When he works… That’s what i think you may not have all the information about. It’s when you DO Surprise them… When you DO Change the situation, in your favor… And they still have the upper hand.

Which is nearly 100% of the time.

The math doesn’t hold up to that, no… Also, “Just don’t use his main gun then” Is a poor excuse by this point.

The numbers say:

And that was gathered from tests involving Training bots Which are a LOT Larger than a Widowmaker.

“Out Sniped” Implied distance between the two heroes being factored in.

Anything below 30 meters isn’t “Out Sniped” That’s “Out Pressured”
Which Bastion is built to excel at.

Which no “Sniper” Should come close to contesting in open sightlines, and direct fire.

I’m not sure what you mean. You’ll have to elaborate.

It’s not an excuse. It’s called using the right tool for the job. Also, the math adds up. I mean you already exaggerated earlier taking about a tank @30m which Bastion has no trouble hitting at all.

That doesn’t address your previous statement. In fact, it counters it.

So don’t engage snipers outside of his effective range. Position yourself so they have to be inside your desired range.

I’m not going to spend the time factoring in every element for you… Those numbers i linked are bad, even considering they were a test involving Tank Sized targets… When most will be a hell of a lot smaller, meaning MANY More bullets miss the target outright, Simply meaning they are less pressured and more able to easily stand in direct fire.

Which would need to be about Ten meters. So, Well within most abilities and effects from every member of the opposing team, I think not.

At some point this whole thing stopped being an argument of Principle And became an argument of Logic and Numbers.

The hero is just not at all rewarding for the risks you must endure to even play it anymore.

Your statement was that no-one should be able to stand in direct LoS. I asked you to explain, and you responded by linking numbers that show the opposite of what you said. And he can hit tanks just fine @30m. Training bots aren’t the size of tanks.

What? No. Sorry I can’t take you seriously if you’re going to exaggerate so much.

[quote=“ChibiFox-11511, post:60, topic:229430”]
At some point this whole thing stopped being an argument of Principle And became an argument of Logic and Numbers .
[/quote] No, sadly it didn’t. It became an emotional mess, ignorant of all logic.

I wish the rework mentality would die. It’s what will kill this game. Instead of balancing, we have come to the point in time where every character’s identity will be erased and altered to fix one leak and create a flood elsewhere.

Yes. I said if they want to reduce his damage output without doing the spread nerf that they actually did… and this should probably only be if they do keep Ironclad in some way

I think limiting Sentry mode is a bad idea. That’s what makes Bastion Bastion. It’s not an ability, it’s his gun. Once you take that away (even by restricting it), he just becomes a worse version of Soldier.

Being focused on Sentry isn’t Bastion’s issue. That part is fine. He’s plenty mobile enough with his transform speeds being what they are. The problem is that they encourage Sentry mode too heavily, which kinda discourages Recon mode. All he needs is better incentive to swap. What I normally suggest is changing how Ironclad works, and allowing it to affect Recon as well.

Self repair is also fine. It doesn’t need any changes at all to it’s function. It could use a few tweaks like having a much shorter cast time, and not wasting resources when it can’t heal him, but overall it’s a good ability.

But when you have basically a 40% accuracy on a stationary target at that range which is just a tad smaller than most tanks, it doesn’t bode well for reliably hitting tanks. Yes, he can shoot barriers pretty well, but not the people behind the barrier.

If you think the damage numbers are fine, then sure whatever. But you can’t really argue that the game forcing you to miss 60% of your shots on a stationary target that’s larger than about 80% of the cast while still inside of what’s supposed to be Bastion’s effective range is acceptable. If they want to keep his current damage numbers roughly, then that’s fine, just make him feel more consistent to play.

I mean, it didn’t do much of anything for him, but I suppose it was a start on him actually receiving buffs… :man_shrugging:

According to your own figures, the shortest hero is Lucio, who is the same height as a training bot.

That only takes height into account, not width… You need both for the area of a hero from the Bastion’s perspective

That’s why it’s much easier to hit the side of a barn than it is a telephone pole even though the pole is taller

But we don’t have figures for width, so we can only go by what we know. I wonder if there is some way to measure them comparitively.

We don’t have numbers for width, so we should ignore the fact that you can see that the training bot is wider, and assume that it’s impossible to know…?

Wider than what? We can’t compare them in 3rd person and we can’t have another player in the training area to compare them either.

You can compare them in third person, just emote… Dance is a pretty good one for comparing them, as they stay mostly in one spot, and there’s usually a few frames where they’re facing a good direction to get a screengrab to compare the two.

With that said, I do really wish that they would expand upon the training grounds a bit to allow you to replace the bots with different models… If that were the case, I’d be happy to test more with different heroes.