And the way they do this is by putting you in matches of people with equal skill. They’re not FORCING a 50/50 winrate on you, just trying to create even matches.
You say you’re a Plat peak player, so let’s just say you’re a gold now. You think if you went onto a 700 SR account, you’d have a FORCED 50% winrate? No, you’d be dominating those games.
That’s the same way higher ranked people see it when plats are complaining about “forced 50% winrate”. They’re at the rank they belong, they stop putting work in to get better, and end up blaming teammates or the system. The “git gud” mentality IS WHAT GOT ME GOOD, as well as thousands of other people. Sure, the system aint perfect, but here’s one thing thats a FACT. You get good and play enough, you’ll climb.
Not necessarily often but I do see this time to time when i browse the forums.
NOTE : These posts vary from 2 months to ~8 months ago. Please do not necro these threads as some users prob dont even play this anymore.
Going through a couple of other posts and oh boy I feel some people like to stretch the truth to make a point: (“Played with a Top500 smurf in diamond and he asks why am I so good at this game and stuck in diamond”. I also ran into some posts of people actually posting their 2nd account info so its not everyone that does this.
I’ve also experienced people possibly lying about their ranks ingame (stuff like “can I play x hero? I’m a (Masters+) dps?” and proceed to do horribly) My guess is they lie about it to force others to play around them and if they lose they blame it on other people cause they play the rank card.
But pretty much when some people try to make claims, i can’t help but to be skeptical if they refuse to provide proof aside from word of mouth. It gets worse when they try to justify not showing the proof with retorts like “I don’t have to show you anything”
Mechanics are just a single part of being good at this game. Game sense, ult management, and more importantly teamwork are all part of what is considered “skill” in Overwatch. You can mechanically outplay everyone on the enemy team, but if you can’t learn to adjust your play style to your team (despite how “bad” you think they are playing), and the enemy can, they will win 9 times out of 10.
That is my bad. When I was talking mechanical skill, I meant everything that you just said to be included. It is all part of the machine. That is my fault for not clarifying that.
It just circles back to the whole problem that I mentioned before: If you can make an alt account and place/stay (or even climb out of) Diamond when your main account is “hardstuck” in Silver, it proves that you have the skills required to play in that higher rank. Following that same logic to the only reasonable conclusion, it means that there is something wrong with the SR/MMR/PBSR and all that other stuff people talk about.
IT means they are forcing people to stay in certain ranks. As to the who/what/where/when/why of that…I have no idea. But the evidence is clear, and people are ignoring it.
Hundreds-of-thousands, if not millions of players have done that very thing.
Their main account is stuck in Silver/Gold/Plat, but they make a new account and end up placing in Diamond-GM, and generally float there without falling.
It is not anecdotal at this point. It is simply a fact. Just as there are people who are “hardstuck” in Diamond, who go and make an alt account, and get placed in Silver/Gold and cant get out.
The system has flaws, and ignoring them to say “git gud” is not a healthy thing.
Yes, getting better at the game CAN lead to you climbing, but it is not a sure thing.
The whole “Bronze to GM” challenge idea is a foolish endeavor. All it is proving is that somebody who was already in Masters, can throw down to bronze and climb back up…because the system knows you were throwing and was probably confused as hell lol.
There is a problem with the system. People noticed the problems in DOTA, and the devs fixed it as best they could. LoL had problems, and Riot fixed those problems. Literally every company who has a ranked system, that has had problems, has had an open dialogue about those problems, and talked about what can/would be done about them…and then did something.
Meanwhile here, there is a current standing issue that is affecting millions of players, but people just keep acting like it is just a couple of people complaining.
You can use the whole “well, just because everybody says it, does not make it true”, but the fact of the matter is that, in cases like this where millions of people are saying there is a problem…it is worth at least talking about and looking into.
I am not even particularly talking about myself here. I am in the High-Plat region with my skills, and that was where I ended up for a while, then fell and climbed and fell…I could have been Diamond, but I didnt and it is what it is. But there are a lot of other people who play way better than their ranks, but cant climb because of the current problems with the system.
What are you two talking about? Who is guessing what?
Except its not just one snow day, its a blizzard (no jokes) for two months, including May, and it happens every year for 14 years…
It happens all the time.
AGAIN, read the posts before you make such unproductive comments. This is the last time I will reply to you, until you decide to actually get with the discussion.
Nah. You put someone, even yourself on a bronze account a hardstuck bronze account, you’ll get it out pretty easily. You won’t have a forced 50% winrate. You’re better than those people, and will climb due to being better than them.
Meh, placing high is relatively easy. You win 7 games out of 10 and get diamond. Very possible to PLACE diamond, but your account wont stay there for more than 100 games if you cant get other accounts out of silver on similar heroes.
Yes, the system has flaws, but its GOOD ENOUGH to the point where you can ignore em and reasonably climb to a SR ~300 of where you belong WITH enough games played. I’m down to ignore it and focus on improving my own play.
99% of the time, you get better and you will climb.
if you climb 200SR you clearly notice people are better than you and if you drop 200SR you stomp
the matchmaking is very accurate.
and of course it’s possible someone who played 65 games a season on a diamond level and gets matched with you in a diamond game has a bad day and plays like a gold for some reason
that doesn’t mean they’re not your skill level
and the matchmaker doesn’t do breathalyzer tests or checks your mental health before you join a game
it uses past data to predict the future, and it does it surprisingly accurate after about 20-30 games played
what you see is people having an atypical performance, not people of the wrong skill level
edit: oh and i haven’t even mentioned yet that the enemies are matched by the same matchmaker and algorithms, so if you think you get matched WITH the wrong people, you also get matched AGAINST the wrong people. and if you now think the people you get matched with are too LOW skill and the ones against are too HIGH skill. you are a conspiracy theorist.
Big issue, IMO, is that “soft” skills are worth less at lower ELO than higher up.
I can know all the Ult combos, about dry pushes, grouping up, trash damage, trash eliminations, etc
But if I’m down in bronze with nobody in comms all that advanced stuff is useless.
Even basic stuff like being a shield tank. In gold I’d place the barrier and my team would work with me. In silver they’d all run ahead of my shield to die like dogs…
When your team mates are really bad you just need to pick self reliant mobile heroes and blast your way out.
I was playing games last night in a 6 stack at 2600 and went 4-1. It was 100x easier than 1300 bronze, where I’ve been before, where everybody just feeds like idiots.
If I ever drop to below gold again for any reason I’ll just blast my way out with mechanics. I’ve managed 40 kill streak in silver before now. Heckuva lot easier than expecting people to work as a team down there.
I did my first placements a few seasons back. I won 9/10 matches and it put me in 1375…And I immediately went up to gold that same season. So clearly there is another problem there. The system is, apparently, really bad at knowing how “good” you are.
And my brother did make a new account. His main is Diamond-Masters.
His alt account is hard stuck in Silver/Gold.
I don’t know why or how. But again, the fact that it happens to a lot of people says something.
Thank you for finally joining in to the discussion.
But no. Currently, my account is like 2300. And 99% of the matches are a one-way steamroller. Either my team gets stomped or the enemy team ceases to exist. It is never a fair match. I can count on one hand the matches I have been a part of where it was a struggle for both sides, where it was a challenge for both teams, where we all had to work together to try.
The other 99.99% of my matches are just pure trash. Clearly not people of my skill level or of their skill level. And a lot of these people, I see in multiple matches, doing crap that I don’t even see Bronze players doing because they know better. Their performance is not just a bad game or two, it is the way they play consistently.
One guy, who I will not name.
Has the fancy Plat Border, 5 stars.
Every season the dude has like 500 hours of Tanking.
Never had his shield up. Never communicated his ults to the team.
Always swinging his hammer like he was the dps, but nothing died.
The dps on his team died a lot, since no shield. The healers on his team died a lot, since no shield. All the enemy had to do was have a third dps and we would lose.
Now, mind you this was before the whole “avoid player” deal. I played 17 games with him, and about 14 against him
EVERY SINGLE MATCH AGAINST HIM, we won.
And every match with him, we lost.
We tried to help him out, we tried to encourage him to use his shield more so the dps could do his job. He just started calling us the N-word, the F-word and then started screaming at us about how we kept messing up.
Meanwhile the only healer on our team (me) kept getting focus-burned by the Symetra and Reaper because our four dps (16 of the won/lost matches) refused to peel and kept trying to kill the enemy dps, and failing because they got no heals…the cycle continued.
But then I started looking at the stats of the players on my team and the enemy team. at the time I even had a spreadsheet for it.
Nearly every match I went into for months, EVERYBODY was statistically under-performing me. Some of them by a rather significant margin. I remember one guy who was a Reaper main. had 86 hours with Reaper. Had a 34% win-rate, 15% accuracy, 15 DPT, average damage of 3k per ten…
Compared to mine at the time, 78 hours of 57% win-rate, 47% accuracy, 3 DPT, and average of 14k damage per ten. Consistently, everybody was performing statistically worse than me.
So then I started looking at mechanics. I watched over a hundred hours of videos talking about what kind of sills you should have to be in X rank, and what you can expect of the average player in each rank.
Maybe 3 people in each match had what was required, and the rest fell short.
I used to record EVERY match I played so that I could see where I was making mistakes. I would watch them back with my brother, Diamond, and a few of his friends who were also Diamond Masters/GM. I used to get slapped around verbally for the mistakes I was making, but they also helped me see what other people were doing wrong. I kept improving, but that was the problem.
Is the better you get, the less often you make mistakes, and the more often you can stop yourself when you recognise that you are making a mistake, and can immediately correct the actions that lead to that mistake.
…But it also lets you see the insanity of other players. Being somebody who has made it into plat, and stayed there for a long time, to come back into Gold/silver players is literally mind-breaking.
The things they do are absurd beyond measure. Like having a Zen and Mercy heals in a match against a Reaper and Junkrat and Widow…People are literally getting demolished because there simply is not enough healing between the two, but they are not in the voice chat, and refuse to communicate in text either. So then one of our tanks switches to a third healer…because LOSING A SHIELD TANK TO GAIN A HEALER WAS REALLY GOING TO HELP…so now everybody is dying because there is no shield so Widow just gets free shots on the entire team.
Gold Logic.
My logic: Let us get a Winston or Dva to help take out that Widow. Lets switch the Mercy up for maybe Moira for some strong burst healing and she has an escape, and her ult could be really powerful since their team has no real CC. Junkrat is going to be a problem no matter what we do, so maybe Zen can keep his Discord on the Junkrat so the dps can burn him down before he kills our entire team…Is my logic perfect? Not even close. But I am making suggestions of characters that anybody can play to a moderate effect, to have a better chance of winning the match, and it is still better than the “REEEE, WE NEED MORE HEALING SO LOSE THE SHIELD TANK REEEEE” that was happening.
I have been seeing that a lot, and I think that may actually be my personal problem. I keep expecting teams to work together, despite the evidence saying that they will not do that. I seem to be able to do the best work when playing Moira/Ana/Zen
I am just good with Moira. Her kit speaks to me lol.
Ana, I have pretty good aim with her nades, and I always call them out, and just seem to have a good sense of when to nade/nano/sleep. Part luck, part skill.
And with Zen…Zen is just a powerhouse. He can keep constant healing up on anybody in sight, and his ult is just a straight up tool of awesomeness. Add to it that he can keep his orb of Discord up on priority targets AND help nuke them down without losing out on any healing? I think right now I have 80 hours with all three of them, and at least a 56% winrate with them. 56% for Ana, 62% with Zen, and 67% with Moira
Besides. I have almost all of my hours played, on tanks and heals since nobody wants to do them. But the few dps that I do play, I play pretty well for my rank. I have 68% accuracy with Ashe (it finally leveled out) and 56% win-rate with her as well. Average about 3 DPT, 11-13k damage per ten, and I get bob out at least 6-7 times per match.
I am thinking still about taking the advice of many people like you, and just focusing on nothing but being self reliant until I can get into Diamond (was just a couple wins away this season >.>)
Yes. Do it. Stop flexing for bad players. You wanna climb? Pick characters that capitalize on your enemies mistakes, not one’s that fix your teammates.
Hard stuck in silver/gold? As in, he’s tried to get it out and he can’t climb out? What’s going on here is
He’s not playing consistently. How’s he supposed to climb if he barely plays
He’s playing haphazardly
He’s playing heroes or roles he’s not used to.
Your brother’s boosted
A master isn’t gonna have an issue winning 65% of their games in gold.
yeah, the hard part is trying to break that habbit a bit. After literally a decade of team-gaming, working with the team is in my DNA basically lol
I know for a fact he is not boosted lol
Number one, he plays both accounts often.
Number two, he mains Mei and Doomfist on both accounts, take that as you will. He had an 82% winrate with Mei on his main account. And again, he mains those two, but he also does some flex when he needs to.
And again, I can promise you he is not boosted lol. That is why its so crazy.
I would share his account, but it has been private since day one, so its kind of moot to share, sorry. We both understand the fact that the stats are genuinely irrelevant (for the most part) because they only tell half the story. Not getting into that now, but yeah. Also, for me anyway, I am too lazy to bother making it not private
Tbh man, without calling you a liar, i feel like there’s something you’re leaving out here. No one who plays solid carry heroes in masters with an 80+ winrate is gonna be hardstuck silver/gold. I find that INCREDIBLY hard to believe
I dont know either my dude. He did get into plat for a while, but then fell down to gold again on his alt. It is crazy. It is just an example, and I have no idea what to make of it.
IF only everything were that black/white…
I have seen my brother, on his alt account, come into games with me while he plays Doomfist. LEt me explain one match, because it sort of sums up the problem.
HE was Doomfist. I was Moira.
He Dove straight into the enemy team. Killed 4 of them, and was solo on the point. I was trying to get the team to push forward to the objective. Doomfist leaves the point to go after the enemy team as they trickle in. So far, two minutes in and he already has 9 elims…MY WHOLE TEAM COULD NOT EVEN KILL A REIN AND MERCY. I had to switch to doing more damage to kill the mercy, because the other dps just could not aim for crap.
Two people are carrying, but the team cant even do the bare minimum.
So then finally the enemy team got a lucky pick on the Doomfist, and they all rushed back to the point…and killed everybody through my orb and laser ult along with the lucio healing boosting…IT was literally a 18 second fight. WE lost the point, even though we had a solid 0.000001 Millimeters on the little objective circle capture icon.
Most matches with people in Gold, flat out CANT be carried. People do not understand teamwork or any higher-level concepts, because all they ever see is the same old nonsense.
A good portion of matches are uncarryable by just about anybody.
My brother had to switch to Mei, which was supremely unfair, just so we could draw. He ulted (no f-ing joke) 8 times in just 7 minutes. And we still almost lost the game.
And yet I have 90%+ winrate in gold. Even carried my friend who is hard stuck gold for 10 seasons to diamond just for fun. But nah… I guess matchmaker forces 50% winrate and keeps people in the same rank no matter what their skill level is.
So he’s bad with other heroes, but he’s good on Mei. You have now told us the answer to why he’s “stuck.” He’s not trying to climb, he’s playing his bad heroes to either learn/troll whatever. I have heroes that I play like a gold on too.