I love reading the forums and seeing how many people preach that super jump is caused by “her model clipping into the floor” and this is why “her super jump is a bug and blizzard should IMMEDIATELY hotfix it.”
When you really play around with super jump it is easily seen that:
a.) It is her bunny hop mechanic. Full stop.
b.) Her clipping into the floor when doing it via the crouch technique is not what causes the momentum vector change.
c.) Variations of the bunny hop allow for 45 degree forward hopping, vertical jump and a backwards jump (that can also be triggered by a normal bunny hop without any fancy mechanics). These are dependent on the input sequence and timing of the players’ actions and hence it can not be called a bug (considering its interactions with the environment and other players).
Following the logic in c.), the devs are at liberty then to restrict or allow the amount of variations that can go into the game’s engine and determine the limit of bunny hops flexibility.
From a player’s perspective, the mechanic is not oppressive to the enemy team as it causes no clear disadvantage and it can be used against Mercy who misuses or miss-executes it.
Edit: Rip headphone users. Sorry about that first bit!
lol yeah I don’t think I’ve ever seen it clip through the floor LOL. You can also do the superjump on a Pharah who is midair, someone is highground, a floating Sigma, etc. AND you can do it from highground to someone below.
It has nothing to do with clipping through the floor. At all.
It’s very easy to understand why people think it’s a bug, and the clipping is not it. The clipping just looks messy and should be fixed whether they remove this feature or not.
Could Mercy ever use teammates on the ground to catapult herself into highground before? The GA momentum might be the source of this mechanic, but intended features can often lead to unintended uses for them. That’s normally called a bug.
I personally don’t mind if they continue to ignore super jump and leave it as is(just fix the clipping please). I rather enjoy the feature and it gives the hero something to master. Just don’t try to tell me it’s not a bug please. If Rein could “charge jump” into highground it would be a bug. Doom being able to rocket through the map when charging at specific angles on specific map geometry is a bug. It’s okay to call things what they are, doesn’t mean they can’t stay.
“BuT SuPeRJuMp Is A BuG BeCaUsE It CliPs TrOuGh ThE FlOoR”
It’s like people forget that this game is built on using the game mechanics and physics to your advantage for all the pro techs like rocket jumping.
Sucks thought that this thread won’t be getting any momentum since people prefer to whine about superjump and how it should be removed than discussing any of the factual information about it. But it should be inserted into any superjump whine thread to quell any whiners.
What makes it a bug? What is the actual explanation? Do you have a code or a link to a workshop code or video that factually explains why it is bug? Something like “game engine expects value x but this interaction gives wrong value y instead”.
I have played a lot with the game’s physics engine and super jump does not have some of the Doomfist surprises when running the variables.
The only thing people have said that “makes superjump a bug” has been floor clipping, to try and classify it as a bug so devs would remove it for their benefit.
Superjump works as the game engine physics permit it to work, you press space and get propelled past the target in some direction. When and how you press space affect the resulting bunnyhop. And because mercy is lower on the y-axis than the target when performing superjump, she jumps up rather than past the target. It’s very simple and there’s no bugs in the coding.
“Clever use of game mechanics” is what they say when talking about game mechanic exploits that they don’t mind/endorse you to use and won’t suspend you over and what they do not classify as bugs or glitches.
Anybody saying otherwise is now plain wrong and salty that they lost the crusade against superjumping, because their skill elitist minds can’t deal with mercy using game mechanics to escape them and dare I say, outplaying them, making them feel bad on the inside, so they tried everything in their power to remove this feature, from false reporting to spamming forums because they have to be better than the skilless mercy players. Well, majority of them.
I don’t have access to the game’s code, so no. You too would be unable to present any of the same information in this discussion, I thought that was implied by the fact that we’re just forum goers.
Mercy didn’t get superjump until she got the slingshot momentum turned into a feature a while back. I have no doubt that it is this momentum that propels super jump. I defined why I called it a bug in my original post. It is an intended mechanic that led to an unintended use. I believe using the momentum to gain verticality on allies that are standing at your level was the unintended use. It might not cheat the system, but it probably wasn’t what the devs had in mind when they added momentum. We’ll never truly know unless they respond. But that’s the thick of it isn’t it? Neither you nor I can factually prove our point. I think it was unintended, therefore a bug. Many other heroes benefit from the momentum feature, but only doom as far as I know can also propel himself in unintended ways(unintended here means in ways they never could before the momentum change that extends beyond simply having a little more airtime by pressing space at the end of the movement).
If superjump isn’t a bug, doom flying can’t be a bug either since they very likely come from the same source. Testing variables in game won’t prove one or the other, probably because one is dependent on ally placement while the other one is a self-propelled movement.
Again, I’m not for superjump to be removed. I just don’t think it was a secret feature the devs casually forgot to include in the patch notes.
The bug is the part where you have to use crouch with perfect timing to execute the jump. There are other ways to do the jump yes, but specifically the crouch + ga part is a bug. If it wasn’t a bug it wouldn’t be as difficult as it is to execute.
I don’t know why people are in such a tizzy about what it’s called. It’s not like it’s going away anytime soon.
Unintended use of game mechanics are not bugs though. This game has tons upon tons of emergent behaviour that use game mechanics and the physics engine to their advantage. Like rocket jumping.
Bugs are things that break the game’s coding, Dva’s black screen bug for instance. Reinhardt shatter bugs where he somehow cannot shatter people in front of him. Genji’s superjump was a bug because he’s not supposed to get additional, huge momentum for stopping his swiftstrike as it’s supposed to stop in momentum after performing it, not continue it to infinity.
Superjump is simply controlling the bunnyhop momentum and turning it into another direction without any extra momentum they didn’t code into the move. Aka clever use of game mechanics and superjump cannot be classified as a bug as it adheres to game physics engine. She jumps the same distance as she would with a bunnyhop and then when GA is finished, she gets her cooldown refreshed and can use angelic descent and she can control the direction of her GA movement and do smaller jumps if she interrupts her GA. If mercy is below a target, she can proper herself upwards with GA’ing past the target.
Basically, everything is working as intended.
A bug in superjump would be something akin to mercy getting infinite momentum from superjumping and slamming her head to the skybox or if her guardian angel momentum suddenly halted if she moved upwards. Or better, mercy really getting stuck inside the floor because of clipping, but she doesn’t do that.
Tl;dr Unintended use of game mechanics =/= video game bug
What would you call it then? Who is making the definitions? I only know what’s intended, and what isn’t. I’m certain they can code momentum in such a way where Mercy wouldn’t be able to superjump, Doom wouldnt be able to rocket jump. So in that sense it’s not entirely true to say that the code is perfectly fine as is, that’s when intention matters. If superjump was indeed making Mercy fly infinitely they would step in and change it, but as you said it’s tame enough to not require action. Still seems like a bug to me, even more so when you consider that only Mercy and Doom seem to have gained something “extra” from the momentum feature. Many other heroes retain momentum but can’t “cleverly” use it in any other form. Especially not in ways to reach locations that they couldn’t reach before the feature.
I’ll call it a bug-turned-feature if it makes anyone feel better.
" Glitches in games should not be confused with exploits. Despite them both performing unintended actions, an exploit is not a programming error, but instead an oversight by the developers. (Ex. Bunny hopping or Lag Exploits)"
" Game mechanics
Taking advantage of the systems that make up the gameplay. A game mechanics exploit is not a bug—it is working as designed, but at the same time is not working as intended. An example is the “wavedash” in Super Smash Bros. Melee , where the momentum gained from using a directional aerial dodge could be retained on landing; with proper timing this allows characters to use a stationary attack while sliding across the ground."
You’re simply using the wrong terminology at this point. It’s not a bug and therefore doesn’t need to be fixed.
Thank you, that was very informative. I stand corrected, it is not a bug but an exploit. Exploit carries a bit of a negative connotation though, I don’t think it’s going to be received well.
For the record, I never suggested that it being a bug meant it needed fixing. I explicitly said that in this very thread.
The thing is there’s a difference between a bug and an exploit.
Super jump is just as much of a bug as Rocket jumping with Soldier or Pharah is. You’re simply using an intended mechanic in an unexpected way. Everything is still working properly, there is no skipped lines of code, no animation cancels, nothing actually buggy with what’s going on.
Game mechanic exploits are everywhere in every single competitive game though, from overwatch to smash bros and it’s very much acceptable to use game mechanics to your own advantage, as long as it is not something game breaking or cause buggy things to happen, such as desynching ice climbers in ssbm ntcs version and grabbing and using forward b spin at the same time causes opponents to freeze completely and unable to control their character. Those kind of things are up to developers to fix and up to player discretion whether it’s allowed or not.
There’s multiple types of exploits that will wary in severity, like currency exploits that allow duping money. Superjump itself is very benign and enhances mercy’s gameplay and skill ceiling cap.
But mostly game mechanic exploits like wavedashing in melee and mercy superjumping in overwatch and all the bazillion mechanical exploits are there to enhance gameplay and for players to learn and attain that skill level and learn techniques. Reasons why ssbm continues to be popular is because these game mechanic exploits allow for a very high skill cap in competitive scene, whereas smash bros brawl where majority of the mechanics were removed or changed completely and utterly flopped and almost broke the fanbase with it’s division.
For an fps game, overwatch has A LOT of characters, all with different game mechanics and techniques you can learn to master to enhance your own gameplay and it’s one of the reasons it’s thriving as a competitive game. People like to git gud.
They can’t get rid of diagonal punching unless they specifically break the usual rules of physics when you have momentum from a punch. There’s no unintended interaction happening.
I’m not so sure that analogy holds. The boop from explosives self damaging you is pretty much universal in function and form. The extra maneuverability from momentum in superjump is pretty much exclusive to GA, and it works in such a way where visually you can tell it’s probably not the intended effect. Mercy looks like she’s flying forward in a supine position while she blasts vertically upward. Is it really such a bad thing to look at that and think “hmmm, well this is odd.”
Anyway, Nere already gave me the skinny on the terminology. I 100% believe it’s an exploit. Nothing wrong with that. It’s not going anywhere. I don’t want it go anywhere. I just wanna call it what it is.