The 'Black Girl' Hero & Apex Legends


#617

I agree if it’s a message. But overwatch isn’t a message, it’s just a game. I even said in my reply that diversity only changes minds if the material was meant to be educational or have a real message.
Simply seeing a black female hand on your screen while you play overwatch won’t have an impact on anyone’s bigotry.

Except when it comes to entertainment no one is every depicted in the same light over and over again. In some things the black character is an evil villi an who wants to rule the world, in some he’s a charming protagonist.
Your point works really well if we’re talking about an education piece of media or a more personal narrative but in a game where there’s practically no back story or lore and it’s just about shooting stuff, diversity loses its profound purpose.

It’s still a bad example, they didn’t do that so they could say “look at this white person who is so good” they did it purely so they could maintain their bigotry.
By your example the people asking for a black female hero are racist.


#618

The concept of specific visually identifiable physical indicators of race IS a valid concept. If a group of people wish to potentially make a myopic decision and self segregate into such communities and carry on their EXCLUSIVE group evolutionary pressures then who are YOU to tell them they can not? So because your race failed at the experiement and quit should bar others from trying to succeed in creating the “over man”. I say the show must go on whether you are offended or indifferent. I say fortune favors the brave.


#619

A message doesn’t have to be anything of intent (although Overwatch actually has a crapload of intentional messaging in its lore; don’t know why we’re acting like there’s magically no story or characterization anymore) nor is it tied to any medium. A message in the context of art is simply the way concepts are framed in the narrative.

… What in the world do you think cliches, tropes, and typecasting are???


#620

The longing for such a nonsensical identification is an expression of weakness and open wounds and its ideology is lacking.

It is weakness and uneducated thoughts that drive weak and uneducated ideologies.

Fortune favors the brave indeed, but yours is an expression of pure cowardice.
Fears drive you.


#621

And you think fear does not drive you? Fear of what you will be seen as? Fear that you are a monster. Fear that your people are evil. perhaps


#622

That’s literally what a message is. If a message doesn’t have intent, it’s a really bad message.

It has lore but no message

“a significant point or central theme, especially one that has political, social, or moral importance.”

The only underlining message you can really gather from overwatch is “a hero never dies” which is prevalent in most of the shorts.

Those have literally nothing to do with race or anything of this topic.

Cliches and tropes are just scenarios that are very common/overused. And people hate it and it’s generally seen as a bad thing.

Typecasting refers specifically to actors rather than race or identity. Like how Adam Sandler in almost all of his movies is the same slob/loser/lovable idiot. Typecasting is also seen as lazy writing and a sign of a bad actor.

These are just film flaws and lazy writing, not (insert race) is always a good guy.


#623

No, that’s just the way art is actually read and discussed at a level beyond high school. You would be extremely hardpressed to argue military shooters don’t idolize the American armed forces, regardless of the individual opinions of the devs concerning the American military or even the industry’s lack of stated intent to idolize them.

Are you serious right now? You think black thugs, Mexican mariachi bands, and effeminate gay men aren’t stereotypes that have to do with demographics?

Lol, even Jonny Cruz admitted in con interviews he got typecast in criminal roles in his live-action stints- including that of a terrorist once- because of his looks and Hispanic heritage, before he started doing voice work. If you think minority actors and artists don’t get hit with this nonsense on their daily grind, you’re literally wrong.


#624

They’ll make one. Eventually. Personally I would really like a witch doctor character. Or more trap heros like Junkrat (having hunter traps?). Maybe an african hunter or something. Or mountain climber, or archeologist, or rock analyst, or astronaut, or mermaid, or necromancer, or warlock, or robot pet person. Plenty of heroes can be made from different backgrounds. And Orisa’s maker can have an older version playable if they wanted. Orisa’s VA does some tv shows in london I think.


#625

How so? Games like cod are mostly fiction nowadays but even when they were modern all they did was tell a story. The games never painted American military as something to be idolized, if anything they showed how quickly military control can get out of hand. I don’t know if you played those games but a main plot point was the corruption of the u.s military to the point where the protagonists where wanted by the very nation they were fighting for.

They are stereotypes I never said they weren’t I just said clichés/tropes/typecasting aren’t tied to race or identity they are just overused scenarios.
Also just wanna point out that Mexican mariachi bands are just authentic more than anything. Mariachi is a Hispanic thing, so it makes perfect sense to see Hispanics participating.

The other ones are negative stereotypes but those stereotypes have existed long before most of today media.
Black thugs can easily date back to 1930 when white folk were afraid of them for their “inherently more violent nature” which was just a racist myth.

Effeminate gay men has been a stereotype ever since homosexuality has been around.

Just to make myself clear I’m not saying these negative stereotypes don’t exist I’m just saying the media didn’t start them and didn’t subconsciously plant them into the publics mind as facts. Anyone who actually believes this stuff is simply ignorant and seeing a successful black business man or a very masculine gay man in a movie won’t change their mind.

That does suck that he was racial profiled (if he was) but that doesn’t mean typecasting is a racial issue, it’s just lazy writing.
Also let me ask you a question.
If I made a movie where the primary antagonist is a white thug who has a gang of other white thugs. Would it be racist and discriminatory if I purposefully picked white gang members to go with the leader?
If no that seems like a really big double standard.
If yes then should bad guys always be a perfect mix of white, black, and Hispanics? Because if they weren’t exactly equal it would be racist that a majority of the criminals are (insert race) right?

This is what forced diversity would lead to, less artistic freedom and more “make sure the (insert race) isn’t the bad guy or that’d be racist.”

Edit: ignore the triple quote it seemed like it wasn’t working but I guess it was.


#626

then lets have a Filipino female, lets have a norwegian hero, lets have a turkish champion…


#629

I already did so in the big post I did earlier. Feel free to read it and get back to me.


#630

They would be offended because of racism.

There’s a great article about the movie Black Panther and racism that you can find on WP which is written by an Egyptian woman here:

h ttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/03/16/black-panther-and-the-anti-black-racism-of-egyptians/?utm_term=.29de8d7c454e


#631

As I’ve already said I’m arguing with you as a person. I’m arguing your points. I didn’t know you were black until you said so. You clearly implied I’m racist with nothing to back it up. Stop hiding behind your race because the bad man won’t agree with you. You’re being immature and very prejudiced.

I love the arrogance that you have that you and the people who agree with you are the only ones capable of teaching anyone anything in this thread haha. Open your mind and listen to what other people say and don’t just follow your agenda. You’ll be more informed and YOU will be the one to learn something. Take that as a lesson in life. People from all walks potentially have something to offer, not just the people who agree with you. It’s fine if you don’t agree with them but you need well thought out and backed up reasons. If you don’t then maybe you’re wrong. At the very least you’re ignorant and you should admit so.

The reason I don’t want to “learn” things from you or others who agree with you is because I’ve read your points and I do not agree. They are anecdotal, ill-reasoned and poorly supported. Do a better job and maybe I’ll agree. You’ve said you don’t want to and that’s fine. It’s obviously bigoted to think that the reason I’m arguing with people is because they’re black when I’ve said nothing about anyone personally being black. I guess racist thought can only go one way with you.

Don’t think it’s escaped my notice that you still haven’t told me what I’m meant to read. If you’re so woke because of all you’ve read then please tell me what I’m meant to read on how Middle Eastern people and black people are the same. Show me the way to whatever ostracized scientific quack wrote such a paper. I hope you’re not just telling me I’m meant to read when you have not done so. That wouldn’t allow you to make the call to knowledge you seem to be claiming now would it? Now just to be clear (because you’re struggling with this), I’m not asking you to do this for me as a black person. I’m asking you to do it as the ignorant fool you are. :clinking_glasses:


#632

Did you know Apex Legends has lore? I would even go ahead to say that it has more lore than Overwatch even though it only has 8 characters at the moment. Every character has a personality, backstory, motivation and a lot of things that makes them compelling. They all have reasons to exist in the game’s universe. Overwatch on the other hand barely has any of that for three or four characters. The vast majority of characters in Overwatch just exist without effecting the universe in any way.


#633

Orisa the African queen. Voiced by a beautiful black female as well.


#635

Sombra is most certainly not a native Mexican. She is almost certainly a mestizo. If you have ever seen natives from Mexico you will see that they have very distinct features about them.

In case is confused. Most people in Mexico are mestizo, or mixed race. When most people think of a stereotypical Mexican they think of somone with mostly European features and tan to brown skin, the name for that is Mestizo.

I think the closest character we gave to an indigenous person is Pharah since her father is a native from Canada.


#636

The thing you have to remember about Pharah specifically is that she’s half Native Canadian. Her father is a member of one of the indigenous tribes.


#637

I was wondering when the black female thread would come up again! It almost waited until sunday. At least it is somewhat more entertaining than last time.

Please, keep it up.


#638

i just find this kind of dumb because people are saying Overwatch has no diversity when 1. overwatch game cover has the hero tracer on it who happens to be Gay. also, you have a black hero Doomfist and Reaper (yes i know his basic skin is not but he was black in the comic/film and he has a skin that is) furthermore, 14 female heroes with most likely another female hero coming and 15 male heroes. its almost a 50/50 and on top of the diversity of place the heroes come from
Ana Amari - Cairo, Egypt
Elizabeth Caledonia “Calamity” Ashe - Deadlock Gorge, Arizona, USA
Brigitte Lindholm - Sweden
Hana Song (D.Va) - Busan, South Korea
Akande Ogundimu - Oyo, Nigeria
Genji Shimada - Shambali Monastery, Nepal
Hanzo Shimada - Hanamura, Japan
Jamison Faw/kes - Junkertown, Australia
Lúcio Correia dos Santos - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Jesse McCree - Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
Mei-Ling Zhou - Xi’an, China
etc.
the list goes on and if you cant see the diversity yet, here is one more thing. overwtach story is about humans and robots (omnics) fighting against one another because they don’t like each other but then humans and omnics try too become understanding of one another but not everyone likes it. in short if you don’t like the game because you think they don’t have diversity you are blind and i think this hole thing is silly and a wast of time because even if they add a black female is it really going bring more players to overwatch? like people didn’t just pick up apex because they had 2 black females. its because one its a fun game and two lots of streamers have picked up the game and started playing it.
P.S i really don’t care if they add a black female hero or not i just want a fun hero to play.


#639

assuming Doomfist’s gender…
smh, Overwatch community, smh…