Thank you for removing the noose

General Discussion
162

No, Blizzard leaving a benign symbol in the game is saying “we don’t recognize you, your evil ideology, nor your attempt to use this symbol in a way for which it was neither created nor intended.”

That knot - unlike the swastika flag - was not created for the purpose of racism, and its existence in the game was based on a benign interpretation and cultural connection to a character.

If American racists came up with a stylized noose flag representing their cause, then by all means ban that flag because it has no other possible meaning. Anything beyond that legitimizes 150 years of misuse by a fringe group in the US over the thousands of years of use by dozens of cultures as a symbol for something else, and over the purpose for which it was included in the game.

By giving them the power to get symbols that aren’t theirs censored by misusing them, you’re showing them that they’re living rent-free in your head, affecting your perception of those symbols and slowly changing it to match theirs. They may not be “welcome,” but they’re effective and you’re letting them know it. Don’t give them that power by just not giving their ideology the time of day; that’s how you combat racism effectively.

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It stopped being Benign a LONG LONG time ago.

But it was used as a symbol for racism.

Yes, but that doesn’t mean that taking it out wasn’t the right call.

See, right here, you don’t get how wide spread the problem was. It was NOT a small fringe group.

No, that is how Germany got the leadership in the 3rd world war.

That is how a bunch of forums who wanted to stand by their free speech ideals ended up having to shut down because the fascists pushed everyone one else out.

What you are saying sounds good on paper, except in the real world it has been shown to be wrong over and over and over again.

It is why Reddit finally had to shut a bunch of subreddits.
It is why 8chans original creator was calling to have 8chan shut down.

Here is a quote from one of the researches on the topic.

“In any case, be very wary of any unmoderated online site that bills itself as a haven or a protector of “free speech.” Because of the selection effect and the reasons listed above, such forums will almost always devolve into fascist or white nationalist garbage fires, even as their administrators cry foul at those who seek to ban or moderate their excesses. This is just how it works: The combination of online psychology (the disinhibition effect), selection bias, and the weeding out of those who can’t stomach it will inevitably result in just another 8chan. 8chan may or may not be gone, but it is likely that another e-nihilist will naively start another unmoderated online forum, claim the mantle of free speech, and shrug his shoulders at all the far-right content right up until the minute that a mass shooter uploads their plans.”

The issue is saying “you know what, while everyone else is banning this stuff, we are more than happy to keep it in our game etc” is a VERY strong signal that you are ok with what they represent.

If the other game devs all remove it, and you do not then you are VERY clearly signalling who you want as your audience.

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this game is based on diversity not one state of inclusion and segregation.
“the world could always use more heroes.”.

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It might be important to them because they live in that safe space bubble. That’s nothing new to this country and the world that laugh at their insecurity.

That’s not evolving. That’s regressing. Know the difference why we’re lacking behind from the third world countries. It’s because of these distractions that keeps this country further behind.

tractions like this and others. Sure it’s not a big issue, but it’s certainly not a positive one either. Just another form of bending the knee just to win some points to a specific crowd that have self guilt insecurities.

If that was used for a symbol for racism then you’ll have to add guns, cartoons, video games, and cops. Stereotyping in different variations is another form racism a.k.a symbol of hate. You just can’t point at one object and clarify that is the only thing being a symbol of hate.

Once again United States with insecurities thinking removing the problem solves everything. You’re making this way too easy for me.

Logic > Feelings.

This country is not physically nor mentally mature. They think they’re doing something right when it’s entire something no one cares about. If that bad concept is brought up then mature people dismantle it down and tells what was the history behind it. Nothing about removing, but not to follow that path again. Unfortunately this country is still premature in a lot of ways to move on from stuff hence why they keep rehashing old toxic concepts/

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168

wow not sure what to say to this post :stuck_out_tongue:

so much ignorance, hanging was a normal execution method and its a normal suicide method, everyone women or male black or white got hanged

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169

A noose could legitimately reference anything.

Unless there’s a blizz post that explains the link then the link is what people assume it to be linked to.

Besides why call people cry babies if seeing a noose around doomfists head bothers them?

Is being an internet bully by calling people cry babies the right move here?

There’s literally a BLM movement right now and people were putting a noose around black heroes heads in game.

Are you surprised it was removed?

171

Lets bring back the guillotine

172

If you see a noose and instantly think of black people then maybe you need to look at yourself

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173

Who tf necroed this post

174

It’s a game. One of the best things a game can let you do is explore morally correct and incorrect ideas. Just as shooting someone is messed up so is putting a noose on on other persons spray is the same.

It’s not about compassion it’s fiction. Mixing fiction with reality is pretty dumb.

It just added something minor into the game that got you to notice it. One of the simplest things that gets people thinking about how to mix other sprays in the game. It was a good way to introduce a mechanic in the game

I didn’t use the spray because I really never cared for sprays. But just because something can be used in a hateful way doesn’t mean that’s what it was meant for that.

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“It’s a game” is not an argument. If it is, absolutely everything should be allowed in a game like Overwatch.

There isn’t an argument here about intent. Of course, not all people using the noose are using it trying to evoke the emotions these symbols mean to some people.

I’m not sure why people keep bringing it up - it’s obvious and not even worth talking about.

Is the symbolism worth banning?

That is the question.

  • If you believe symbols don’t mean anything because “it’s a game“ then we fundamentally disagree so let’s not argue but it opens a door for everything to be accepted in a children’s game.
  • If you believe this isn’t a symbol at all then as I said before, it’s an issue of arrogance and lack of compassion
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Devs made clear they sure are racist thinking noose is, luls

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I think a noose isn’t something evil enough for teenagers. Most people would recognize the game mechanic it is highlighting that sprays can be combined in interesting ways.

The cute mercy spray can be made funny by adding a wanted poster to it.

It’s not protecting teens from anything by taking it out of the game. As the people who use it as a racist symbol will still be in the game. They aren’t going to change just because they lost one way of implementing their hate.

It was designed for normal people. To use and be like rip character. It’s just meant for fun

The spray isn’t inherently bad. It’s just bad people who are bad

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178

I don’t know how many times I can say this.

Of course the spray isn’t inherently bad - just as the swastika wasn’t initially inherently bad.

The question is, is the symbolism to some bad enough to outweigh having the spray in the game.

Obviously the symbolism doesn’t mean anything to you.

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This is what I don’t really get. First off who is the some. Because it really depends if those people are looking at it from a misguided lens.

It’s like how vaccines can be looked at by some people as a great evil when in reality it’s an amazing scientific achievement.

The noose really symbolizes capital punishment it was a signature way to execute people in the west. Mecrees character is designed around a cowboy so the noose should be judged in that sense.

It’s just something that represents the past. I think looking at the noose and coming to the conclusion that’s it’s racist is wrong in this situation. It should mainly be looked at with indifference. I don’t believe removing something just because people are looking at the wrong way is a good thing

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180

Ok well we can stop there. You are right, you don’t get it.

Comparing a baseless vaccine conspiracy to acknowledging the existence of a symbol that factually was used for the intimidation and persecution of a specific race.

You fall into the category of arrogance and lack of compassion for refusing to acknowledge the relevance because it doesn’t matter to YOU.

Good day sir - ignored forever.

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That’s a parallel… of course it’s going to show an extremely dumb view it’s not me advocating for anti vax it’s showing that people can get symbols wrong showing a Karen a picture of a shot will resonate the wrong idea from them. It’s like how 4chan was able to convince many people that :ok_hand:t4: Was a sign for white power when it’s not.

Yeah nooses have been used in lynching it’s also been used to execute people at the Nuremberg trials.

The thing that has a much better case for why the noose should be removed is for people that have relatives that committed suicide. Which has a ton more overlap with the people who actually play this game. There is just a much clearer place to hold your ground here.

I don’t really see the point in getting offended for other people. But normal people don’t look at a noose and think white supremacy.

But still I wish you the best. :slight_smile:

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182

For those capable of logical thought - it’s
clear the noose BECAME a symbol of hatred towards black people. Like Swastikas BECAME a symbol of hatred.

I have no problem with people believing that censorship is bad as long as they are consistent and believe ALL hatred symbols should be allowed.

If you are not an idiot after reading a little on the history, you clearly see that FACTUALLY it was used AS A SYMBOL. It’s not derived not contrived - it is fact.

Comparing this to vaccine conspiracies is as stupid as comparing the existence of the holocaust to the earth being flat.

For those incapable… well good luck with your life and I hope that people don’t compare recorded history to unicorns when it comes to something important to you.

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Except it didn’t symbolise hatred or racism.

It was a spray for McCree. McCree is a cowboy. Nooses were a thing back in the cowboy days.

That is what it represented. Nothing else.

You need to get over yourself.

Guns are a symbol of hatred. Punching is a symbol of hatred. Bashing is a symbol of hatred. Yet all that is also present in Overwatch.

If they remove the noose spray from a cowboy character because some people see it as representative of hatred then they need to remove the guns, the punching, the bashing, etc from the game too.

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184

And which major racially oppressive (or otherwise oppressive) event were those things used explicitly as a symbol of racial hatred?

And I’m honestly confused - do you just not know nooses were used as a symbol or are you just ignoring it?

Again, it seems a case of “I don’t see the symbolism so no one else should”.