I feel defeated. Sigma is the only character I enjoy lately and they killed him. If Echo really is a tank killer, I’m not sure I’ll play as much once she’s released.
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Even if I don’t play tank as much as I used to anymore-
I’m terrified of trying to tank against an echo.
I’ve only been able to play against Echo in arcade games on the PTR, so my view is rather skewed, BUT I’m still scared of having to go up against an Echo and basically be fish food to her.
You are so wrong on every level. Let’s begin.
“We only have shields,bubble, interruption, resistence,extra hp, time based shield”.
Thats a large list. You also have a damage boost from Orisa. You also have immense kill threat with roadhog that can one shot dps. You also have environemntal kills with pull / hook. Roadhog has the strongest self heal in the game. Zarya’s ult is the biggest synergistic ult in the game, with good pairings with genji, tracer, hanzo, widow (to some degree) ana, dva, I can go on. No dps ultimate or support ultimate has this much synergy and play making capability.
- Supports have 7 playable characters, theoretically they have it worse than you.
The day you see a moira, lucio, zen, mercy, brig flank and not die instantly, please, please, make a video and I will change my comment. A flanking support equals a dead support and possibly a dead team entirely. There is a no “support playstyle”. You are either a healbot or aggressive support depending on the situation.
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With regards to mobility, Lucio, baptiste, Moira and mercy are the only mobile supports. With that said, only one can reach the high ground effectively with Baptiste. Zen, Brig, Ana are like bricks. The only immobile tanks are Sigma and Orisa. The reason being, supports are generally the focus in a team fight and mobility is mandatory. There’s a reason no sane person plays Zen, you just get dove and get rekt. If you’re a pro Zen, with a good main healer and peel, by all means.
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As far as I can see, both healers, dps and tanks have the following:
- Dive/High mobility
- Brawl
- Stationary
What else is there? What roll has something else?
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Your last point I don’t really understand sorry?
If you go on Overbuff you can hit the competitive tab & hit “More” next to recent activity, seems I’m sitting at exactly a 50% winrate with him 
7-7-1 (Should be higher, I blame teammates 
)
Wow that’s a super rude way to start a post but ok… Let see what you’ve got
Yeah but none of them are ways of protection and the ones that are, are part of the list.
damage boost is not a direct protection. sure if you don’t have enemies to kill you, you don’t have damage to block. but if someone shoots at you, this will do noting to stop the shot. Sure they have extra damage but that’s a support utility, not a tank one, provides no protection. It might help space making but it’s not a protective abillity.
Once again, not a tank abillity. Tanks job is making space and protecting their team. I said noting bad on the space making utilities the game has to offer but in term of protection other then the 6 other utilities I mantined no other utlity actually provide protection.
One shot is a damage based attack that help making space. Not protection. What DOES provide protection is the hook itself that provide interruption. it both cancels abillities,deny medium range attacks ,seperate the hero from its team and stops the shooting for couple of seconds (if not more. deppends if hero is dead after the hook or not).
I guess it might be possible to split interruptions into knockback,stuns & movement changers but even then, most tanks are not uniqe and have an abillity another tank had before… Since the start of the game we didn’t get any new protection way, temporary barriers were the closest as a new mechanism but even then it’s the same as hog’s healing. gain extra hp. the only different is that temporary barriers are on time but can be added as extra while healing is not for more than the max amount but stays for more time. if the abillity is used in a moment of need it will have the same effect.
For support we got so many new ways to heal and new utilities, just for an example immortality field, armor, orbs of healing, anti nade. all utilities and healing ways that were added to the game and not something we already had.
Also im not super trilled about the split of interruption to knockback,stuns and movement changers because even though they might be different most of them go hand in hand and unlike healing+damage resistance that hog has in take a breather. this 3 usually will work together not by force but by their role themselves…
if you stun someone you stopps his movement or change it yourself, it usually make the enemy stay in place like a move changer and usually has a small knockback, if you knock someone you change his movement and can also easily not let him use some of the abillities either because of the surprise,the range or the canceling of a movement abillity
and if you change movement (grav or halt) you both knock it back, don’t let it use some abillities and controll its movement.
it’s both extra hp and damage resistance… sure it doesnt give more then the max hp unlike Hammond’s addaptie shield and sigma’s kinetic grasp but it does provide more health points. It also give damage resistance to the hero. 2 things that were on the list
Once again, there’s a difference between a good tank, a good hero and a good protection way. The grav is before anything another interruption.
Interruption by deffinision is stopping an act in the middle.
you could argue and say that shields for example and interuptions as well. but I look more on interrupting the act itself.
hook interrupt the hero itself, halt+grav interrupt the movement, all things that hero is doing at the same second- with shooting the hero already sent its shot. so using a shield or bubble is more about blocking less interrupting.
I put both interruptions at the same category because both stop enemies movment and some abillities from being put the use while the abillity is used. same for hammond’s boop- while it doesnt stop any abillity from use the boop itself cancels their use or force enemies to use their abillities.
Doesn’t change the fact the condition of the class tank is bad. I never said tanks are in worse condition than support. but 8 heroes compared to 17 dps is a HUGE difference. 7 heroes compared to 8 is really close to noting… besides if you look at the pervious point. tanks only really have 6 different protection ways- support heroes have so many different ways to heal and so many utilities.
healing:direct beam,aoe,direct projectile (harmony orb,pack), healing orb,healing shot,splash aoe healing
utility:rez,speed,immortality,armor,extra damage,anti heal,bonus healing for amount of time,extra health (lucio’s beat),stun(I don’t know if it counts as a supprive utility but I"ll put it here because it’s a possitive utility not the less)
unlike the tank category each support has its thing,playstyle and different healing.
you could argue and say baptiste 7 Ana has simmilarities, same for moira and lucio perhaps. but each one has a special utlity that makes it uniqe compared to its friends… not like tanks that have 4 tanks with barrier 3 with extra hp, 2 with time based shield, 2 with damage resistance, 6 w/ interruptions (3 stuns, 2 movement changers & 1 knockback)
Only ana has anti nade+bonus healing from nade
Only Baptiste has immortality
Only zen has discord
Only Lucio has speed
Only Moira has flying orbs
Only Brigitte has armor and stun
and Only mercy can rez dead players.
That’s the intrensting thing about playstyles, the hero doesnt have to be part of it by body in order to be efficient with it. Zenyatta is the most common example for that- Sombra and Reaper can get behind enemy lines easily using teleport& invisibility. We both can agree about that. but a healers job is both healing and bringing utility. Zenyatta can be both things easily from distant contributing to the playstyle without being a flanker himself. It’s like a lot of players call Pharah a diver although she’s a kiter- she has a kit that helps her contribute to the dive playstyle although she herself is not even a diver herself, she moves fairly slow compared to any other diver and keeps her distant.
Theoreticly speaking you can speak w/ Moira but just like you said yourself, not really recomanded, it can be good in some cases but her fade is not long enough to flank in most maps and concidering her ultimate goes through shields and overall the hero has a medium range weapon- it’s usually best to keep her with a brawl or stationary team, not a flank. Her weapon is not even a bursty one… it’s a slow spammy weapon, in flank you need the element of surprise and her tickle gun destroy it…
If you look at the tank category no tank can really flank in all maps…
Zen can contribute healing,damage and utility from distant, but no tank so far can really work well wither flankers… You would have thought Zarya might have been a good combo since she can bring a bubble that concidered to be the best close range protection abillity, but the range on that thing is not enough to help flankers and she doesnt have the speed to reach them.
4/7 of the support heroes…
Deppends on the situation… every role has its use, support role is provide healing& utlity. the only reasoning you would want to get high ground is because you either need a sight of view of the battlefield or you’d want to heal someone on high ground (sometimes you would want to escape there but high ground is not the only option, you can also use deffensive support utility).
The 2 support heroes that would need highground for eye of sights are Ana & Bap. Maybe zen as well but at least for me it’s better to stay on lowground-easier to land shots but idk, maybe it’s just me. anyways, at least there Baptiste really has an abillity to reach there fairly easy, and most maps have a good geometry that enables reaching highgrounds next to point by stairs.
as for the 2nd use the support itself doesn’t have to be there in order to heal. Sure- Mercy can reach you in high ground if needed, but it’s enough to have a zen from range in order to get healing on high ground (brig can work as well but you don’t want to use brig as a long range healer, she’s more of a close range one)
Flank-low mobility, can get behind enemy lines without being noticed (while you can theoreticly flank with every hero, flankers garentee 100% not being noticed by the enemies since teleportion and invisiblity for example really don’t let the enemeis a way to spot them,even if they search for you). All flankers have some sort of an abillity to escape the scene after dealing some damage. Flank heroes usually have burst damage or bursty utility in order to get use of the element of surprise. The only real flankers in the game so far are Reaper,Sombra & Symmetra. Heroes w/ good synergy with flankers are Zenyatta and maybe just maybe a brawly composition in order to make a distraction…
Kiting- high mobility, long range composition. the composition is based especially around surrounding the enemies from distant. heores in this playstyle are Mercy,Pharah & Echo. Genji can also be used a kiter but it’s really really not recomanded since sure he has high mobility and no fall damage on his primary but his deflect and dash become fairly useless with the hero…
Heroes with good synergies with the composition are Zenyatta,Hammond,D.va,Ana & Maybe, only maybe Winston (Require some testing…)
I know these are only 2 playstyles but concidering the fact the game only has 3 main playstyles where 1 of them (dive) doesnt have so much heroes compared to the 2 others. 2 more playstyles can make a HUGE difference.
Flank can be amazing against some of the stationary compositions like a Bastion comp and kiting can be fairly good against divers that flankers that can’t reach the heroes in the sky.
oh i’m sorry if I didn’t wrote it clear enough 
anyways what I meant is the existance of main tank and offtank.
some of the tanks in the game are much better compared to other. for example if you’d run a Zarya-hog composition or a D.va instead of one of the previoud heroes you’re most likely loose to composition like a dive w/ winston or brawl w/ rein (I wanted to put Sigma and Orisa here as well but they overnerfed him…)
The tank category is the only place where such thing exists. if you look at the support class all support heroes can work since the ones with the lower healing have utility instead. For example Zen & Lucio have a pretty low healing but they have high utility output with speed and discord being super strong against the right team.
Same for the dps class, Mei for example doesnt really do much damage, but her freeze is a damaging utility since the team can do damage to the target and it doesnt resist while being frozen.
But with tanks- the main tanks are just much better than the offtanks.
Sure utilities like hook or bubble are good but Rein’s ult,barrier,damage are much much better than what other tanks have to offer for example Zarya. bubble is amazing abillity don’t get me wrong, but in the current state of the abillity it only blocks 200hp, for 2 second, Zarya’s damage is high but only good while being charged and only on one target. The class of tanks is already split to 2 kinds of tanks, but they’re not situational unfortunatly. you almost always have to run one of the main tanks (Except for Hammond every shield tank because of how strong shields are). running 2 maintanks together is fine but 2 offtanks will usually result in a fast lose because of lack of protection…
it’s fine and fair every tank will have other job and one tank will focus more on close range damage while other will focus long range for example but it’s not the case. Rein has both a shield to deal with long range, a hammer to fight close range and fire charge for both.
A huge part of it is the fact shield are so strong compared to other utlities but this point is less fous on the shields stregnth but more on the weakness of the other utilities.
Anyways sorry for the long peragrahp but I hope I answered everything well. Not a big fan of your 1st setnence but the rest of your comment was clear and polite so I"ll ignore the start…
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Bored and frustrated, like every other tank player.
There’s no variety, and the meta’s are strict.
And even then, we’re cc sponges, so it’s not like we get to play the game in the first place.
Sorry dude, you say a lot of useless stuff and its way too long to read. Say more and talk less. I can reduce that 1500 essay into 300 words.
It is with the current pool selection.
You could probably scrap pools for Competitive, but I think OWL should keep it.
Fair enough. Top 500 play queue is long atm tho. I genuinely feel bad for Widow players.
Month ago but i still agree with this. Im tired of having to playing out of my mind to just not throw and still be moaned at by my team due to my picks not being viable anymore
This is where you are wrong.
Rein being banned also means that Zarya/D.Va are also banned. Of course I don’t mean that they can’t be picked but that Zarya/D.Va don’t really pair well with other tanks.
Wb was gutted with the repeated nerf to his mine and then Piledriver
Winston is still bad
Sigma can’t be used without Orisa
Orisa cant be used without Sigma
Hog is ok but easily countered.
Rein’s ban just shows just how poorly the other tanks are balance wise
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I mean the last dps we got is ashe but I was hoping echo would be a support bec we had 8 tanks and 7 healers
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Except I’ve been seeing Winston/Zarya Sigma/Hog
Orisa/Hog Ball/Hog Winston/Dva Orisa/Dva Sigma/Orisa and other comps
i want to die because the only viable off tank is zarya and everybody else is just a stun sponge because they don’t have both a cleanse and stupidly high dps
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You have to distance yourself from your own experience a bit. Ball/Winston/Hog all have terrible pick rates.
People also main certain heros so Sigma/Orisa is just bad enough that if you dont play those heros you are better playing your best tank.
But tanks are so unbalanced atm that they are limited in what they can do even if it is your best tank.
I enjoyed Sigma because it was the first tank that was actually pretty hard to play compared to the other ones, they guttered him, they guttered Orisa my favorite Shield tank, D.Va is still trash and to top it off some people think Echo is completely balanced lmao.
I am not playing tank again until they actually worked on their balance.
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Basically gave up playing tank altogether. I’m just tired of being blamed for everything.
Sigma is the worst IMO. He’s way easier to farm the ult of safely, adds great utility, and FML if the enemy team has a Sigma and the Echo:Sigma decide they’re going to ult one after the other.