Talon Did Nothing Wrong: A Explicative On How Talon Saves the World from Overwatch's Stupidity

Story Discussion
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Talon wishes to create conflict in a weak world. Omnics are clearly out-pacing humans and this point was illustrated with a conflict that showed this issue. Now people are actively figuring out solutions whereas before omnics could have quietly secretly gotten so powerful they could never be defeated. Is the world not worth saving just because how you do it is controversial and requires some death?

Are the members of Talon truly insane and evil, or merely achieving an uncomfortable greater good?

Reaper killed Antonio, a man who was clearly going to get away with his crimes due to an unjust system that would enable Antonio to needlessly commit more crime and enable mass murder with no just end goal in mind. Would it have been more just to enable his greedy enabling of mass murder via arms smuggling in the name of profit? No, all it took was a bullet to end the man who attacked Overwatch, a world-sanctioned military group -and for that Reaper was shunned. Justice prevailed because Reaper cared more about doing the right thing than allowing evil to prevail in the name of ‘orderliness’.

Doomfist wants to create conflict so the world can evolve. Should we proclaim that evolution is a failed system, or that conflict has not been the basis of evolution for thousands of millennia? Should we proclaim that the basis of our survival is evil? Doomfist merely fights for a stronger world able to protect itself, like a vaccine empowers the body despite embodying a virus. If the world’s survival can be ensured via a little bit of conflict, are we not obligated to ensure as much for the greater good of everyone?

Widowmaker loves to kill for pleasure, but who has she killed when it comes down to it? She killed an innocent omnic, equal in value to any other human, but that omnic advocated peace and unity among people and omnics. What would peace and unity among omnics and humans lead to? -Harmony in the short-term, but weakness in the long-term. How can a world realistically survive in the long-term when its greatest threat, the intelligence and superior potential firepower and hacking capabilities of the omnic, can be created infinitely, and eventually surpass the number of humans as well as their strength? In the short-term sure omnics and humans would get along, but over time it would become apparent who is superior. Thanks to Widowmaker firing that shot, humans and omnics have not peacefully unified, which would have led to a gullible easy takeover by omnics. All it would take is a minority of omnics able to override the wills of all other omnics via hacks, to destroy the world -which was demonstrated through the Omnic Crisis.

Moira experimented and tested research mainstream science ridiculed and ostracized, because it was different and controversial, yet Reaper reaped, no pun intended, overwhelming benefits that border on the first step towards immortality. I say a scientific community that weak does not deserve Moira, and Moira was certainly correct to join a group that would advance research that may one day lead to all humans living forever and surviving horrific accidents. Fear and weakness are not scientific -they are pathetic barriers to survival, which is the basis of why humans need science in the first place. Without advanced science willing to take risks, humans will continue to suffer horribly and die quickly -but thanks to Moira, historical breakthroughs were made.

Maximilien runs a casino and tactfully maneuvers around less promising Talon associates, to help keep Talon functioning in the long-term. Is controversial profit in the name of a cause that actively empowers the world and creates controversial breakthroughs, unjustified at its core? I say a little bit of questionable profit in the name of everyone’s safety and improved lives is a more than justified trade. Maximilien is a genius with great ambition and understanding of what’s needed for success and him siding with Talon just shows how great Talon is.

Blackwatch was the underside of Overwatch -a questionable group of controversial figures used to do some unseen good that Overwatch can’t as easily do with their more flashy gullible personalities. Blackwatch’s own leader Reaper saw more potential in Talon than Overwatch, because for him he knew deep down that Overwatch was too tied down by legal bureaucracy, which fittingly destroyed Overwatch and caused their members to be unjustly labelled criminals. Blackwatch these days might as well be considered Talon, because at the end of the day Talon continues what Blackwatch started -a mission to save the world in ways Overwatch can’t get away with. For Overwatch members to hypocritically oppose Talon’s necessary contributions to humanity’s survival in a world populated by potentially world-ending omnics able to have their free will hacked, as well as a world with lackluster science, and a world with people more concerned with what’s socially acceptable and legal than what’s right … only reveals how far-gone the gullible mentality of Overwatch’s members really is.

Overwatch fears controversy, breaking the law, and creating conflicts. Talon loves bold innovation in the name of humanity’s survival and transcendance of suffering, breaking the law in the name of doing the right thing the law is too ignorant to understand, and resolving conflicts that were created specifically so they could be resolved in short-term conflicts and applied in defense against potential larger threats.

Overwatch is nothing but a bunch of intolerant obedient reactionaries while Talon brims with bold freedom-loving leaders. Overwatch members follow the orders of their leaders without question in battles they are purposefully manipulated into by Talon for the greater good of human survival and a better future.

Talon did nothing wrong. Overwatch is what Blackwatch used to be -the underside of a bigger organization. Overwatch is now the underside of Talon used solely as puppets that test solutions against the experimental conflicts Talon creates in order to ensure people are safe and free of injustice. If Overwatch had their way, the whole world eventually be in an Omnic Revolution that slaughters all people while controversial science on achieving some semblance of immortality or transcendence of suffering would be forever censored.

Overwatch is nothing but a bunch of gullible losers that want to feel good about what they do without actually doing the right thing. Talon did nothing wrong.

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Ow ow ow, easy on the Edge, dude.

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This is where it kinda loses me. First off, actual evolution takes so long that this would not net any identifiable results before it’s too late anyway, though I think he was referring to a less literal evolution than genetic adaptation by natural selection. But I also have to question how his methods actually benefit anyone.

Who is he targeting for growth through the conflict? How is this conflict actually creating positive change and not just destruction? Not everyone is capable of the kind of change he wants in the way he wants it, and forcing their hand won’t do anything to change that. Why create more conflict when there is clearly already plenty of conflict to begin with? It’s not like this is a utopia where everything is perfect and no one struggles for anything. Why is more conflict needed at this time for humanity’s survival? It’s an interesting motivation but I find it very hard to believe it could achieve much of anything valuable.

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Without evil there can be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes!

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Perfectly summed up, friendo. The narrative created by Blizzard for a simple game is actually quite deep and clearly written in a way that seems simple and fun while if you dig deeper, there is a much more complex and weighty message. Much like the gameplay, characters, and aesthetic serve as to cartoonify the game’s writing, the basic premise hides concepts that if applied to our real world today, could reveal some shady things.

The entire comment on how society concerns itself with order and laws instead of what is right is very telling and we can see many demonstrations of this. For one, they always say doing the right thing is hard but they always meant it in a moral sense when in fact, it needs to be said in a evolutionary sense. The true leaders know that in order to save the village, one may have to burn it.

Another demonstrating is Symmetra. All she cares about is order and correctness. But she is being manipulated and used like a puppet on a string all because she cannot see what is going on right infront of her. Sanjay, her handler, has an inner seat on Talon and is therefore an illustration that he only used order to get to the true goal.

If you think about it, all the character seeking something deeper are in Talon. Moira clearly understands how everything is going down and is working fast and hard to make gains in biology as to make humans stronger. If they can’t improve themselves in time, then the Omnics will overpower the humans as you said. Sombra is looking for who runs the world, the ones who are pulling the strings, the ones who made the rules which govern society. I don’t know if she suspects Omnics or even if it is the omnics but she uses an eye as the logo in the center. Does she connect it to the Iris which Omnics believe in, the same thing that people motivated by social justice like Tracer infest learning about and therefore begin to support unity between humans and Omnics. Then we have those characters you already talked about to nail home the same theme.

But sure, we can care about how this affects the game and stuff but my guy, wouldn’t it be best to use the mindset our Talon babies have and look out at the real world with it. Art has always been something that has radically changed society. But art has always been policed. But in turn, art has always gotten smarter and hidden important messages in it’s deeper meaning.

Gaming is a huge part of art in this modern world. It is used to entertain the masses, specifically those in the younger, middle class demographic. (younger meaning millennials, a little before them, and then everyone since.) Now, we could delve into the entire subject that is the entertainment industry and what purpose it serves but that is a topic for another day. The quote " Panem et circenses" fits well should you want to think about it further.

But those who write the games lore, they are artists. Now, it is my belief that intelligent artists are just as important as intelligent scientists and intelligent leaders. Their role to play is to create media in which meaning is conveyed to the audience. And if there is something overbearing that is trying to limit a message, it is the artists job to plant the seeds of ideas into the minds of the masses. Only they have the talent, skill, and insight to get the message across to the receptive ear in a way that is only apparent to the intelligent and invisible to the oppressors as well as those who won’t take action.

Now, who are we supposed to be? Those who know what to do and what right is? Or the reactionaries who want to do right but are too naive to see the undercurrents, the meta of life as you would say.

Respond if you wish to discuss further.

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They, LITERALLY, kidnapped an innocent woman, BRAINWASHED HER and had her KILL HER HUSBAND.

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They also blow ups some places, steal money from people base on batiste story, murder many, and propably gona start new omnic crisis where many people will die for sure.

But yea, they brainwashed one person, thats most evil think they did so far :stuck_out_tongue:

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I mean, that’s certainly one of the most messed up things, morally. I was mostly curious how OP would have this fit with his “Talon are the good guys” narrative, since he seems to think that terrorists attacks are for “greater good”

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Someone missed some history classes, saying that humanity evolved only through conflict or even the basis of humanity evolution being the conflict is just incorrect, what made a bunch of monkeys being diferentieted from humans were the fact that some “monkeys” gathered in community and started improving their lifes exchanging knowledge, im not saying that conflict didnt make humanity evolve at all, but taking too literal like Doomfist likes to say is just incorrect.

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In the beginning, Kaplan created…

And let that end any foolishness about evolution :crazy_face:

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Actually, Doomfist fights for a world without vaccines, where those with natural immunities or limited exposure survive. It is quite the opposite of herd survival. Using Doomfist in the same sentence as a herd survival tool such as vaccines displays a woeful misunderstanding of the subject so catastrophically flawed, it invalidates even the basic premise of “They are just edgy guys out to save the world as they see it”.

The evolution of mankind has always been cooperative, identifying what people are best at, and placing them there for the benefit of others is better than the generalization where each is responsible for their own food, shelter, security, health, etc. Identifying those who perform their tasks best and placing them there is essential, for the well being of the whole, which is the exact opposite of the Doomfist principle, which is that those who can force their way into positions have earned them, whether or not they belong there.

In other words, Doomfist is the embodiment of a power hierarchy, whereas humans dont do well with power hierarchies at all. Society flourishes in the presence of competence heirarchies.

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“Are the murderous terrorists actually the good guys?”

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Very interesting POV of Talon. Essentially, the ends justifies the means for Talon.

I don’t necessarily agree, but I appreciate how you see things.

I think Sombra is the unsung hero that is going to save the world. Sombra is going to dunk on tracer in the story, and in turn be the hero we never expected.

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makes sense, but even a worst of villains are heroes in their own stories

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I have no intention of spending 15 minutes reading a justification peace on a fictional terroist organisation, but reading like 2 paragraphs in, this just looks like the same fallacy that justified the beginnings of WW2. (And actually WW1 now that I think about it.)

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They, LITERALLY , kidnapped an innocent woman, BRAINWASHED HER and had her KILL HER HUSBAND <

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This post should be posted in Story disscusion.
Maybe there you’ll find more people who wants to share their opinion about the lore.

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Dont forget that overwatch itself was formed due to the omnic war. The best soldiers, technology and strike teams on the planet formed under one sign due to war.

And we know how much overwatch helped, and the threat of talon is bringing them together again. Which means, talon is in fact helping people

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Overwatch took a random dying japanese kid. Made him into an abomination of machine and man, messed with his psyche and forced him to fight as an assassin. They also pinned a lot of the blame on rein, according to brig.

Neither side is good, but talons doing their damn well best.

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Talon was right. I need that shirt.