Only it’s a different game so
It would be still there but only possible with one turret as the other two would get destroyed if stacked. But yeah I’m all for it going away to open up for other buffs
Honestly if they made photon shield much stronger and/or allowed her to have an active combat utility (like a constant shield or some other utility), she would’ve worked perfectly as a non-healing support, but they nerfed her to the ground on launch
healing is not the only supportive ability…
She was the second coolest support imo (first being Mass Rez Mercy). Supporting WITHOUT healing. However, I’m not opposed to giving her healing if she were to return as a support, but I would want her main way of supporting the team with buffs like teleporters, speed boosts, shields, damage buffs/resistance, etc.
why did you have to include this line? now I can’t heart 
.
no it wouldn’t unless you want to rework her gun to the point whereby she has the effective range of soldier and beyond or so. because she ain’t maintaining uptime with low effective range without good enough mobility.
not this “shes held back by team tp” lie again… please read the below:
List of changes mentioned:
I agree, but versions 2.0 and 3.0 were also incredibly flawed iterations. Sym never needed healing to be a support. Devs are just dumb and ruined the support role with new busted supports that heal too much. Supports were originally dps-lite except for mercy.
You’re right about most of this. Except…
Just because she was never a healer, and no build of her has ever been adequate for support doesn’t mean she can’t be a support now.
It would require a ground up rework, but it could be done.
I think her current build isn’t viable for… Well, anything. It’s antithetical to the way Overwatch has been played and will be played.
Sym is a busted hero and the fact that people en masse still want a rework after the 80th rework kinda shows that.
I don’t think she’ll be moved, but it can work and I still want it.
Forum users are genuinely convinced they’re right all the time and everybody else is wrong lmao. The same mentality as “my team sucks and not me.”
Do you remember when she received the smallest buff she could have gotten and was meta for 7 days? Everyone, and I mean everyone, hated it. This wasn’t at the fault of DS, this was the pure fact she shredded through anything that had shields and required very little skill or aim to do so.
TP can work on a Support because every Support has powerful utility. Bap has lamp, Brig (used to) have Bash, Mercy has rez, Zen has Discord, etc. With the exception of Mei with Ice Wall maybe, no DPS has powerful utility that effects their team. If they do, it holds them back balance wise because they would be ridiculously good if they were keeping up with other DPS while having that utility. Like, why pick a DPS that does a lot of damage over a DPS that does both a lot of damage and has great utility?
This is exactly what happened when Sym was buffed that one time and introduced probably one of the worst periods balance wise. Blizzard was actually quick to nerf her because people hated it so much. When does that ever happen? It was that bad.
Just rework the hero. It’s not like you would actually lose her, you still have Zarya who is both more impactful and actually fun to play.
I mean this is just going to get the same response. “no” essentially.
Agree to disagree already. It’s bordering on spam at this point.
Her 3.0 as it stands now is completely dominated by team TP and wall.
Honestly if you make her more independent she really wont be 3.0 anymore.
2.0 was the least flawed of those because it actually aimed to solve issues with 1.0. 3.0 is flawed because they removed everything 2.0 fixed and then nerfed her solo abilities to the ground during the years since.
1.0 was flawed at its core in the same way that 3.0 is: a close range hero with no survivability to exist at that range is not a viable concept.
Zen and Lucio still heal. In fact Lucio heals a lot of you use him for more than speedbotting. Zen’s healing had to be nerfed by giving it a LoS because it was absurdly reliable. Do they do other things? Yes! But thats because both tank and support have always been multitask roles. You heal when necessary and deal damage when you can. Thats the basic gameplay of an OW support.
There is no such a thing as ‘‘non-healing supporting’’ because not only utility is not exclusive to the support role, but also ‘‘non-healing supports’’ end up being either just utility dps or gimmick heroes unviable outside abusing their trick.
If you remove Lucio’s or Zen’s healing and compensate on their damage, you just end up having utility dps versions of Tracer and Hanzo.
That is because the 3.0 rework, which was criticized since day 1 as poorly designed and implemented, was never meant to make her a viable DPS hero. It was meant to make her an OWL gimmick pick first, anything else far second. This is something intrinsic to its design - it traded 2.0’s survivability and always useful effects for a broken utility skill thats a triple whammy of being team + comp + map dependent to have any value.
Mind you I am of the idea that she needs a rework, but there is nothing written in stone that she needs to be reworked into a healer. A rework does not mean relocation to another role.
Sym is far from bustered and there is not one single reason to want a rework.
Sure you have people who are honest and sincere in wanting Sym to be better, and even the healer Sym crowd kinda wants that even if their ideas are all terrible. But on the other hand you have trolls campaigning for a nerf-work for Sym because they are whiny manbabies and have died to sentries and hate Sym.
She may be or may not be. But I KNOW it won’t receive any changes to make it better for herself until the team aspect is gone. Because instantly TPing your team could be too strong
Factually speaking, for us normal players, she isnt held back by team TP, but thats because its kinda bad to mediocre on actual ladder, because trying to get people to use TP and use the right comps for it is like herding cats.
But its broken on OWL, and 3.0 was kinda designed for two things: not threaten flankers, and be an OWL gimmick pick.
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right but we are held back because of it😩 Because trying to escape with it doesn’t work half the time
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- Remove team/construct TP.
- Revert all nerfs
- Leave personal, make instant and move it to the alt skill.
- Bring back photon barrier as the primary ability with personal TP.
you mean the double shield meta that wouldn’t have ever happened without sigma, i.e. the 2nd shield?
you mean the meta that very likely would’ve happened regardless of infinite tp NERF?
uh huh sure. because double shield still being meta now with or without sym totally doesn’t disprove that /s
and totally she wasn’t nor still isn’t hard enabled by double shield /s
big question remains, how do you want such a “sym” to get uptime?
like in terms of range, sustain, mobility, and burst for any aspect of her just as a “support”, where will she be?
disingenuous point because regardless of their utility, all of them have been balanced and designed to be able to get decent dps uptime independently which is the core problem current sym faces simply due to devs neither giving decent numbers and also trashing the mechanics of her core uptime tool tp preventing her from being able to do so (i.e. not a design issue).
how does increasing orb projectile speed making it more aimable in more ranges (i.e. increasing effective range) and making tp better for self mobility without effecting team tp “not 3.0 anymore”? 
except we empirically see the limits already even with a coordinated team (see OWL). it isn’t really.
and there’s objectively changes (as I laid out) that can improve her without even touching how people optimally use team tp.
why feed the lie and fear? 
meanwhile in my suggestions that can absolutely happen without removing team tp:
which absolutely addresses that.
Hmm… Okay yea this sounds nice. Could even make it so she instantly teleports to the target placement location without interacting.
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There are actually.
But if it’s your position that literally anything is on the table when it comes to abilities and it doesn’t matter who has them then that directly contradicts your original post that would confine her to be in the DPS role. So either you have double standard OR you agree with me 
. Pick one
I did, scroll up. I’m not going to continue and Ad nauseam
Speaking of Ad nauseam…honestly it’s like a game of find the fallacy. Very fun
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That’s fair. I mean, I’ve never really openly talked about it in other topics or made my own topics, I’m just commenting my opinion on this one. That said, my opinion can be summarized pretty simply: I think if Blizzard underwent the work to do a full rework, and make a Sym 4.0 healer (or even dps honestly), it would be better for the game’s health, but I don’t think they will and it is what it is.
I think I misspoke. I know gamer context “busted” has a context of OP but I didn’t mean it like that. Sym is basically worthless. I disagree that she was intended to be an OWL gimmick pick, I think that’s just kinda what she became, but when I say “busted” I mean her design is broken and incredibly difficult to get value of outside of extremely niche and specific circumstances.
I think she needs a rework to be made worth playing. Sym’s major difficulty is she can’t reliably change positions, and she’s extremely turret heavy but her turrets are very easy to counter. This puts her at a massive disadvantage in the current game, and OW2 becoming more mobile will make her even more of a throw pick.
I don’t have a specific idea for a healer rework, I just think the game is in such desperate need for healers that if a groundup healing Sym rework could be done it would be better for the game, but Sym players at the very least need a Sym 4.0 that has her more in line with the philosophy the game is going. She’s in a rough place and needs help bad.
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I assumed you were using for ‘‘overpowered’’ instead of broken as in broke broken lmao. We were thinking the same thing.
Ultimately those are solvable things provided a rework strikes in the places that need to be improved and eliminates
I dont feel like practically erasing a whole hero, and a potentially/past very unique hero at that, for the sake of meeting a healer quota could be good for the game at large. Like I feel that at that point, since many of the utility dps mechanics of Symmetra are at large cant be translated to support, it could be practically an entire new hero.
And it couldnt come at the cost of a whole playerbase either.
Definitely.
Its funny because the 2.0 rework aimed to solve her big issues like map specific impact and lack of survivability for a close range dps and the 3.0 rework just… completely shat on that and removed not only shield gen but also her personal defensive cooldown and +75hp.
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