Symmetra mains were scammed

General Discussion
61

Torb’s redesign didn’t change a huge portion of his kit though - he still has one turret. He’s always had one turret. He can still armor up, just only himself and not his whole team, and it’s stronger now. His ultimate even got an upgrade going from just his turret being stronger for a bit to him being able to spew molten lava everywhere and instakill people with it.

Symmetra no longer has half her turrets. They take longer to deploy. They do less damage overall than they used to, the slow effect has been nerfed so it no longer stacks when it used to. She lost her proton barrier, the only thing that let her survive a fight with her own skill rather than being just lucky or propped up by her team. She lost her shield generator and her teleporter that let you come from spawn, making it actually useful because it spanned a significant distance rather than it being the 25m limited piece of crap it is now. edit: Oh yeah and they turned her primary weapon into an absolute crapfest, because it went from being actually useful to the most stupid gun in the game.

And she ‘gained’ the ability to slowly have her turrets waft gently in the breeze to very meticulously unfurl and then get blown up by chip damage before doing any damage themselves -_- and a giant wall that lasts a few seconds. Woop-de-do.

Torb didn’t lose nearly as much as he gained. Symmetra lost so much more than she ‘gained’, and what she ‘gained’ isn’t that great.

2 Likes
62

Summary:

Sym 2.0 best as Dps in a Support slot (Worst Support)

Sym 3.8 (Current) best as a Support in the Dps slot (Worst DPS)

Aka just give Sym healing turrets

2 Likes
63

You know this is an outright lie.

Sym 3.0 became even frailer (from 275 and personal shield to… nothing).

Her orb is just as unreliable outside short range.

Most of her entire worth as a hero is on team TP now, which is way worse that being on her very fast charge TP, specially with pierce orbs.

Sentries’ 30hp is a token change and they dont last much anyways, they still die to anything. They also have arming time making them basically unusable during dueling. On top that she ultimately traded sentry damage, slow and area coverage for… cheesey sentry TP bombs?

Sym 3.0 didnt solve any issue. It just made them worse or created new issues.

1 Like
64

She is a different hero, not better or worse, just different. Changing roles also means changing playstyles.

At this point I treat them as two different heroes. In a way Sym players were scammed yet that is to be expected when reworking heroes.

This is why I say changing roles should be the very last option for balancing a hero. As it is not the same hero when they switch roles, it cannot be. Just the role change itself makes them different enough.

Reworks are not something we can do willy nilly, like some people think. Nor do reworks fix all the problems.

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I am going to be honest: Yes I miss Lock-on and, unless they give Sym the survivability that every other close range hero has, I want it back.

Mainly because there is no incentive or positive net gain for using her beam at all unless its against double shield tanks who are alone. At least lock-on was a short range weapon that made sense with her lower survivability - high risk high reward.

3.0 removed her survivability AND her reliable damage for… what? 3m extra of beam range?

Its hilariously incompetent (or, vey likely, malicious) from Blizz to move Sym to DPS and then make her a worse DPS hero that when she was when she was misclassified as a support.

She is a worse dps that when she was a support, and she actually fills the non-healer support role better that when she was a support.

Little of Sym right now makes sense, she doesnt have a clear gameplay or toolkit cohesion/consistency, and she depends completly on team TP and massive team pocketing to get ANY value out of her as a dps.

Torb was reworked and he didnt lose as much. Torb moved completly into area denier with a hint of brawler, while Sym lost basically everything that allowed her to perform at close range while getting only gimmicks or pretty much nothing in return.

This is just a botched rework, either accidentally or intentionally.

Sadly right now Sym’s problems wont be solved by buffing or minor changes - she has deep, fundamental problems to how she operates as a dps hero, or better said to how she cant operate as a dps hero.

She needs a deep rework to either make her an actual, cohesive defensive close range hero, or make her a full support, because right now Sym 3.0 has just SO many design issues she isnt usable beyond broken team TP cheese on GM/OWL.

1 Like
66

However to me she was never a support. Sym 2.0 was a support, Sym 3.0 is a DPS. As I said before these are two different heroes for me, not the same person.

Thus she was never a support, Sym 2.0 was before she was deleted. Since they are in different roles I judge them on their own merits.

Yet he still lost what made him Torb. Torb is not really the same hero anymore. I am not saying he is bad, but I also do not think he is still Torb 1.0.

There are Torb mains who hate the new Torb. Just like there are Sym mains who hate the new Sym.

Mains of reworked heroes always get scammed in some way.

Even though they would never do any of these. They want Sym to be played both on defense and attack so they will not put all her power into defense. They have also decided support is not for her and would never put her back.

The next rework for her would be for DPS or a Tank.

67

keep in mind:

those of us who wanted her reworked again expected a 2.0 like rework, improving upon the character, not out-right redesigning everything

and 3.0 right now is still an overall bad character

1 Like
68

Sym 2.0 was as much of a support as Torb was. They had utility, but they were both defense heroes at the end of the day. Before she was deleted, Sym 2.0 was going to be moved to the defense category, but Blizz took their sweet time despite that it could have solved a lot of the misconceptions about her.

Sym 3.0 meanwhile is a hero that most of her value is into team TP - the rest was never viable, or was gutted. She is effectively more team dependant that actual supports, while doing very little on her own.

I am also a Torb player and the only thing he lost was armor packs which was compensated survivability-wise by moving his ult to their place, and he won an entirely new ult. He became a more selfish hero, yes, but he is still overall the same hero aside the lack of armor packs.

Except she isnt being played ANYWHERE. Her pickrate is like 0.2% at some points. Sym 3.0 failed from day one when the rework nerfed/deleted basically every defensive aspect on her kit. She became squishier and unable to outduel any dps, she lost defensives, she lost her self + team sustain ults, she lost the ability to punish barrier pushes, etc.

She isnt even marginally better on attack either - she became a troll pick when it came to perform an actual dps role without massive team pocketing, all for what? For an unbalanceable team TP cheese in a couple of maps? Being able to meme Hanamura if your team is good enough to carry you is a disgraceful state for Sym to be.

Meanwhile Sym 2.0 had maps where she could translate her defensive power to attack, like Payload maps, or Volskaya. In Volskaya you could drop backline TPs or could put Shield Gen where it could affect both points.

I am going to be honest, while some people wanted small rework like flying deploy sentries and higher HP, some others have lauded every Sym change since the rework, even outright nerfs like Infinite TP. Those were also the same ones that jumped the Sym ship when she became even worse lmao

1 Like
69

Well that is how they want to balance her.

Well so am I and to me he lost his defensive power in exchange for attack power. As well as his level 3 turret.

Armor packs maybe nothing to you but to me it is what made him Torb. It is how I played him and liked him.

So yea, I got scammed.

Sym 2.0 cannot work in 222. Having a support with no healing would be a bigger throw pick.

Personally I like Sym 2.0 and Sym 3.0 but more so to 3.0. However I also see the flaws of both Sym 3.0 and 2.0. Sym 2.0 is a product of old OW, what worked back then cannot work here.

OW is being balanced for OWL, and OWL players are using her. So in the end Blizz got what they wanted. It is just not what others wanted.

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If the dev kept sym 1.0 the big names of this forums with 4k+ posts would be malding about how weak she is and how they are being bullied by the devs because their hero wasnt being changed, you guys weren’t scammed, grow up.

Old Sym was hot garbage, the only thing worst than her was release Zenyatta, she was not a fully completed hero with a versatile off support kit, she was a gimmicky mediocre dps with utility.

Yes 2.0 was a step in the right direction, but even then she was horrendous.

3.0 or whatever is next for her will always be more balanced and powerful than the previous versions. It’s not fun ? Okay, sadly for you the “fun” Symmetra was bad and couldnt last for the sake of balancing ( as weird as it is sometimes ).

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It’s not our fault Blizzard did a bad job. It’s their fault. If Blizzard had done a successful rework, no one would be complaining; do you see Torb mains flooding the forums asking for reverts? No. Bastion mains? No. When the changes are good, people by and large don’t mind them.

It’s almost like it’s part of their job to view, assess and then make decisions about the game ~ and thus when they do a bad job at it, we have every right to point out that they’re doing a bad job!

1 Like
72

Uhhhh

Sym 3.0 is neither better, more balanced or somehow more powerful, at least not in a balanced way that gives agency to the Sym player. Right now Sym 3.0 is a meme pick at all levels even in OWL, where she is only picked as a taxibot.

I never needed Sym 2.0 to be an OWL staple. Being used on OWL should never be proof of a hero being balanced or viable for the 99.99% of the game.

2 Likes
73

In fact!

Sym 3.0 is way more unbalanceable that Sym 2.0 ever was because most of Sym 2.0’s strengths and weaknesses (aside performance against Pharah) could have been easily fixed with number buffs. Shield Gen too strong? Nerf it to 50 HP and compensate on max HP on Sym.

Sym 3.0 is at her lowest point EVER in ladder - a whooping 0.3% pickrate in Masters/GM after a set of ABSURD nerfs, but she is somehow played in OWL? Oh yeah its because team TP in unnerfeable, so instead they absolutely demolished everything else on Sym’s kit, everything that allowed to even attempt to be a dps hero.

Sym 2.0 was a cohesive design stronger that the sum of its parts, while Sym 3.0 is basically a tower of trash mechanics formed around team TP gimmick incapable of forming a functional kit because it was never meant to.

74

Short and true. Perfectly summed up!

1 Like
75

Symmetra was the reason I bought the game =p

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it was a hard pub stomper please. lets get real. I literally never seen as many crazy plays in quick play than symmetras killing 4-5 people in a row quick without an ultimate.

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Show me proof of it other that ‘‘hurr durr no aim means it was braindead!!!’’ I mean sure lets ignore it was close range, started as 30 dps and was on an inmobile hero with mechanically hard to use survivability.

Because the data, pre-private profiles at that, shows that Sym was never a pubstomper, having a 2% pickrate even in bronze.

You know who is an actual pubstomper, both historically and right now? Reaper, because he is much more of a pick and play hero that Sym 2.0 ever was, with massive sustain, 250 HP, panic button, easy engage, sustained burst and a team wipe ult hard to stop in bronze/silver.

Sym didnt magically teleport behind you with 1000hp and a max charge beam.

On what? On QP? On ranked that could never happen unless the enemy team is potatoes even for bronze standards, from personal esperience. Whats next, saying that Sym is fine on spins roulette Mystery Heroes?

78

then we have to agree to disagree.

But as I mentioned, I would rather have the Shield Gen as the ult instead of Photon Barries, keeping the 75 extra shild HP for her.

Her orbs are still faster then 2.0, making them more reliable then 2.0 when it comes to range poking.

So, be able to reposition your low mobile allies (and yourself) to high-grounds is worse? being able to move your whole team pass hard to breach choke points is worse? Also, the new TP with the unlimited duration change kind got the old TP feel on certain maps.

Old TP had its uses as a “sudo-res”, but the new TP allow far more versatility and utility if you communicate with your team (and they follow up of course).

well I rather have 30HP then 1HP. And they used to be good, but after the dmg nerf they became very underwhelming. I would love for them to have 50HP, I think that would be a sweet spot (at least after the dmg nerf).

Sym 2.0 was slow and a bit sluggish (because of the turret deploy range), and the game became so much faster over time, these changes allowed her to keep up to some degree. She (sym 3.0) is more the victim to over-nerfs of anything IMO, but the fear of her becoming oppressive is something the OW team struggle with I think, but I can understand that to some level.

But hey, at least we both agree that SG should have stayed :smiley:
/xoxo

79

Just because some normies on the forum can’t get value out of a character doesnt mean it isn’t balanced, good sym players that are not hardstuck gold, with actual mechanical skill and awareness WILL get value out of her and out of any characters.

I like how people are yeeting the “taxibot” excuse at everyone’s face but also forgets how she becomes one of the biggest threat in the game on map like Lijiang and Nepal and thats is true even today and she is picked all the way through the map. Not for some tp gimmicks only but also because the very closed objectives allow Sym to get the best out of her beam.

Except it should. I would have left this game long ago if some Gold Moira main was dictating what’s balanced or not.

You don’t balance and judge something’s viability by taking looking at mediocre players. You look at the best from OWL and Contenders to make a game with a higher skill cap and skill expression and depending on how you balance it a fair or harsh learning curve.

Hate it or not there is not a single healthy competitive game that lives by balancing around us. What Blizzard is doing wrong is balancing for both sides.

80

I’ve never played her previous iterations before, but yes, she is honestly a boring and bland hero with a boring ult, and it’s why I almost never play her.