I don’t. I am simply pointing out the fact of the case that in order to properly weigh the proper amount of damage or impact a character’s weapon should have you have to consider what the rest of their kit brings to the table as well.
But that is the ONLY part of his kit that has any utility at all that impacts more then himself. The rest of his kit is pure damage or is for the sake of his own survival.
Sym on the other hand has slowing mechanics, team mobility mechanics, and team defensive mechanics. Not to mention her damage is not SOLELY based on her weapon but also her turrets as well.
Because Reaper, Bastion, Pharah, and Tracer all provide utility for their team right?
Your not understanding the point once more. The point is that “Pure DPS” refer’s to a damage hero that has weapons and abilities built primarily around getting their own damage into the mix.
Yes, Tracer has abilities that are not directly damage related. But all her abilities are centered around ENABLING HERSELF (no one else) to do damage.
Sym on the other hand has a TON of team based utility that her allies can take advantage of. When utilized properly this makes Sym’s impact just as good as any DPS who may have “better damage” because she is increasing the impact of her entire team by being there.
Increasing her damage to her Primary to be directly comparable to that of other DPS who are ONLY damage focused would mean she would offer far more value in comparison to those who have no utilty for their team.
Why choose a damage hero with little utility when you can choose one with a lot who can do comparable (or better) damage then them. You wouldn’t and as a result Sym would be miles better then most DPS.
That is unless you nerf the entire point of Sym which is gutting her utility entirely so that you can gear more toward pure damage output.
In all honesty i would want that! As a symm main im tired of her being a utility support pretending to be a dps and people saying she takes up a space of a dps, even when she was support that was the complain aswell “ taking up a slot of a healer”
Remove her turret and teleporter and make her Pure dps with no ramp up and give us face melting beam! And while at it give her an offensive Ult.
Why put her in dps category if what does is a taxi driver and a kit with multiple conditions to work?
I love symm that is why i mained her, there are many hero with rifles and pistols in this game but that does not mean i can only choose soldier over sombra
Most people who are advocating for Symmetra to be fixed were already happy with her 2.0 iteration. Just to be absolutely clear.
Symmetra was changed to 3.0 version to appease people like you, we never asked for her to be changed. But she was. Now she’s no longer a “support” hero, but rather a “DPS” hero, and now you, representing those same people who advocated for her to be reworked in the first place, say that she can’t be as strong as other DPS heroes.
It needs to be visible and it needs to be longer. Right now it blends into the scenery like no other beam in the game, we should be able to set the color because it is so thin. 12 meters is ridiculously short, it needs to be 20 meters like every other beam in the game so she doesn’t feel so stupidly counter-intuitive.
Her primary does a great job of creating a lose/lose situation for a Barrier Tank. Leave your Barrier up or place it out there in front of you and you are feeding her charge. Lower it or Opt to not place your barrier and you are taking damage directly to the face AND feeding her charge.
Most Barrier tanks opt for the former. What happens when the Barrier is broken or they are forced to lower it? A well charged beam is once again hitting them the millesecond they are exposed.
Sure, Junkrat can apply better shred damage but after the barrier is down his damage becomes inconsistent and only in bursts. Where as her Primary applies INSTANT damage to the target and creates better opportunities for follow up.
Can apply CC to multiple targets. Both with Pre-teamfight setup and proactively during a team fight.
With the changes to how she can deploy her turrets and how much more health they have she is able to create multiple instances of easy to hit targets for herself and her team within a short span of time OR she can deploy them slower to keep consistent distractions.
She has the dexterity to switch damage types based on the situation
Enemy that requires burst? She has Pharah level burst damage. Need more sustained damage or something that bypass’s various defenses like D.va’s Defense Matrix or Genji’s Deflect? She has this as well.
Many hero’s have only one real choice of damage because its either all they have or the other options are on moderate to long cooldown’s. This is not the case with Sym who can switch based on need.
She has one of the best defenses against high burst and/or range attacks in the game.
Her new projected barrier ult is perhaps one of the most underappreciated parts of her kit. Unlike her old cooldown version the new barrier can nullify the advantages of ranged attacks for long durations of time. Thus either creating a numbers advantage for your team or forcing the ranged attackers in to mid to CQC. Not to mention prevent huge bursts of damage from ults such as D.va explosion, McCree’s Highnoon, Pharah’s Barrage, Soldier’s Tactical Visor, Roadhog’s Whole Hog, and etc.
This ult can provide cover where there typically is none and ease the jobs of all other allies. Tanks expend far less defensive abilities to get their team into range (and thus have more for the actual team fight, DPS can focus more on damage and less on avoidance against ranged targets, and Healers can focus more on helping damage the enemy team through various options they have instead of trying to keep everyone topped off.
Because Symmetra as a support was not worth it in 2.0.
Her turrets were far easier to ignore or clear.
Her turrets were pre-fight setup only. Once the teamfight started she had no opportunity to place them during the fight.
Her primary placed her within range of EVERYONE in the case for terrible damage output in it. Making her essentially a suicidal playstyle.
Her Shield Generator was either not helpful enough on its own or far to powerful when combined with other health bolstering effects.
Her projected barrier was useless at close range against anyone who realized backpedaling away from her was the only thing keeping her protected and barely useful at all against ranged attacks because a simple step to one side or a change in altitude would remove the annoyance.
Her secondary was easiest to avoid in the game. The only justifiable reason to use it was if a pirate ship was present. But even then it only did 120 damage every 2 seconds. For a whopping 60dps. Easily nullified by Mercy before her healing nerf and still nullified when combined with the healing of the cart.
Teleporter relied on either the enemy team being brain dead enough not to see it if it was nearby or the teleporter being placed so far away from the objective that you might as well have walked anyways.
Current Sym survives more consistently and can offer MORE utility now while also contributing to the damage pool without being suicidal about it.
So because Symmetra’s primary attack, which takes FOUR seconds to charge up to = the same DPS as other DPS heroes regular/always attack damage “forces” a barrier tank to hold up his barrier, therefore fulfilling his position as barrier tank – means that she’s healthy and OK where she is right now already? And like Symmetra is just going to stand there in front of your reinhardt and charge her attack on him without taking any damage at all, assuming that this is a 1v1 world and there aren’t other enemy heroes behind that shield that would kill symmetra with her measly 200 health, in less than 1 second?
You’re insane. That’s all I gotta say about that.
Her “beefed up” sentries have a whole 30 health. The lowest DPS hero in the game, Winston, does 60 DPS. Those “beefed up” sentries die in 0.5 seconds from winston’s AOE gun. They might as well still just have 1 hp, their health is literally no different than before. As a matter of fact, having 6 sentries total, each with 1 HP, was far better than her current 3 total, 30 hp sentries. At least with 6 she was able to cover multiple spots making Tracer’s life very difficult, or Widowmaker, or Genji, or any other hero that might be attempting to sneak around unnoticed.
“Can apply CC to multiple targets” until those 30 hp sentries get oneshotted. Instantly.
That’s a lie. She does not have Pharah level burst damage. Pharah does more damage, has an actual splash on her rockets, the rockets travel faster, AND Pharah is able to fly, giving her good positioning to land those actual rockets on her targets, whereas Symmetra is Grounded with no mobility and can only shoot straight ahead. Either dodge them, or take them, but she’s not comparable to Pharah unless you’re playing in Bronze. Which I think has already been established that you do.
the old Photon Barrier was superior to her current barrier without any question. It was usable on the fly, it could block ultimates and provide cover in many instances. Obviously you never played Symmetra 2.0, you just got on the hate wagon without any real experience for yourself.
A Symmetra that goes out on her own to fight someone would be a dumb play. Symmetra is a TEAM hero. So no, Assuming Symmetra is using the cover of her team (why does everyone think that Sym cannot stand behind a Rein shield herself?) and due to the ranged abilities she has she can also use geometry to her advantage much more then old Sym.
ad ho·mi·nem
adverb & adjective
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
With this being said I am going to disengage from this conversation as it has devolved into mud throwing on your part.
And only 1 hp in flight, have the hitbox of Wrecking Ball, and take 1 sec to “bloom” until they’re active. Be sure to throw that in there as well.
Yeah, I feel like I should reiterate the 1hp in flight thing. During combat, especially if you’re being targeted, is the worst time to deploy a turret, as it’s detrimentally large hitbox will undoubtedly cause it to be grazed with damage, destroying the turret and setting you back 10sec for another.
Wait, what?! It’s an ultimate, with a cast time. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve cast it, and died before the shield went up, only to watch it go up in time to protect my lifeless corpse.
I’m not saying that Shield Wall is useless, it certainly has plenty of defensive and offensive uses. A get out of jail free card it is not, however. If you can manage to drop your Shield Wall down before a Pharah kills you with her ult, you have far better reflexes than I do.
I understand this perfectly well and I agree. It is sometimes unavoidable that some of your sentries may get destroyed while attempting to use them mid fight. However, this does not diminish the point that you could not do this at all before. Nor does it mean that this happens all the time or even the majority of the time as it all relies on many variables. Just like any other action you make in Overwatch with any character.
I cannot count how many times I (or the sym main that I partner in comp with) have successfully prevented enemy stalls or prevented enemy re-enforcements who are back from respawn by planting turrets mid fight.
There is a huge amount of power in her turrets now. Something that I do not think is unfair to also have something punishing attached to misplaying them such as a 10 second timer each. Perhaps it could be reduced (as I am not opposed to buff to Sym. Just the idea of buffing her primary to do 180 damage at all times) by a second or two but I do not think she SHOULD be able to spam them constantly.
Once again, You are correct. It does have a cast time which means it is most certainly harder to react to fast deploying ults with high burst. Such as Barrage for instance. Once again, I am not opposed to perhaps changing the cast time to allow her to be more reaction based.
However, It still has application to all these situations if you are good at Anticipating an enemies next move over simply Reacting to said move after the fact. Most players are not hard to read. An enemy Pharah’s positioning massively changes when she has the desire to Barrage enemies which in turn projects what they are up too.
A Rein becomes somewhat more aggressive when he is ready to Earthshatter. Which projects his intentions.
Couple this anticipatory skill with basic ult tracking sense and suddenly it becomes quite potent. Perhaps its because I am so use to doing the same on Mei that I do not find it that much more difficult to do so with Projected barrier.
The whole charging up thing is to differentiate the wheat from the chaff (i.e. people with good mechanical skill vs people with bad one) and it’s not going away…
What you could argue… is that she is too hard for mechanically challenged people and the damage range should change…
A solid stance and point. Perhaps make it more lenient but still have a moderate amount of skill requirement to farm its full potential. Much better then doing a straight 180 damage all the time.