Symetra infinite TP

[Zephrin-11143]

@Poytheon-1466

You can have it as a spawn taxi (thanks to it being infinite) but if no one is dying you can use it just as before, placing it down for your team to change position at any time. Old TP wouldn’t have functioned any differently, once you place it you still had to wait 10 seconds. The only way it’s different is that with old TP after that 10 seconds you had another TP…but I think you overestimate how useful that is.
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You can have it as a spawn taxi that you don’t have to keep replacing, or you can use it to reposition every 12 seconds.
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but you still had to wait 10 seconds to reposition which is only 2 seconds less than Infinite TP’s cooldown.

I’ve legit repeatedly posted the math showing what you’re saying here legit isn’t as convenient/fluid/soon as you imply.

@Zephrin-11143

Old 3.0 tp:

• time to next cast = 12s from placement, fixed
• experienced down time = (10s - usage time) + 2s
  • where usage time is in [0s,10s] which represents time spent actually using it and the last 2s is the remaining cd when tp duration is spent.
  • 0 <= experienced down time <= 12s

infinite tp :

• time to next cast = uptime + 12s
• experienced down time = 12s + (uptime - usage time)
  • which is unbounded above
  • but already the MINIMUM experienced down time here is greater than or equal to the MAXIMUM down time of old 3.0 tp

the only time you’d get tp back as quickly is if you bugged infinite tp to be instantly destroyed and in that situation you get 0 uptime.

with infinite tp you’re guaranteed 12s of waiting. And that isn’t even including time you’re waiting while tp is up because you left it up for some passive use case like spawn tp too.

with old 3.0 tp, the time you spend waiting is only 12s if it got instantly destroyed. if you used old 3.0 tp for x seconds, you’d have 12-x seconds to wait for your next tp and is bounded below by 2s.

Difference of [12, infinity) vs [2,12] intervals for down time/waiting time is a massive one.

not to mention even if you actually only used old 3.0 tp for 2s, it’d still be up for another 8s while the rest of the 10s cd ticked away which is far better than current where’d you lose out on the 8s uptime and also be getting a tp cast 2s later forcing you to have less in combat options and to have a more passive and binary playstyle due to needing to decide whether to wait out 12s without your ticket into and out of your effective range now or later.

@Poytheon-1466

The only way it’s different is that with old TP after that 10 seconds you had another TP…but I think you overestimate how useful that is. Teamfights usually don’t last that long, 1 TP reposition is usually all you have time for, people usually get picked or the enemy takes point by the time you could cast another.

https://youtu.be/zZpoyvNb96A?t=123 : 1st tp to effectively give him access to hard cover and elevation escape without hard disengaging. 2nd tp to escape the 2+ rush on him + take out widow. with new tp, he would’ve hard disengaged when he went off high ground or at most got up and had to rely on teammates to save him from winston or the subsequent rush after. defs no widow pick with new tp.

https://youtu.be/Wf2YWc1Bb0M?t=476 : 1st tp for dueling ball. 2nd tp for bombing enemy backline. he wouldn’t have tp back in time for that with new tp

https://youtu.be/H-oVdX7BUyc?t=131 : 1st tp to get the rein back up on high ground but he noticed too late and it got destroyed (can’t really blame tp for that, it was even placed where he was). 2nd tp for the flank on zen. with new tp he would’ve missed the flank on zen

https://youtu.be/H-oVdX7BUyc?t=896 : 1st tp to escape winston. 2nd tp for the moira pick and double orb on brig. new tp wouldn’t be up in time for the 2nd play.

https://youtu.be/ge69YRomZ7E?t=328 : 1st tp for bomb (attempt) and better angle. had 2nd tp available for escaping the rein but messed up cast hence death (can see the animation for tp being quickly brought up but canceled; he would’ve made it too). but with new tp, there wouldn’t have been a chance at all.

https://youtu.be/SwayP0ohb14?t=434 : 1st tp for sending turret to allies for peel + angle + rein dodge, 2nd tp for hanzo pick. legit with new tp, he would’ve gotten tp back at the time he got the pick on hanzo with old tp and for all we know hanzo probably would’ve been healed up by then in the new tp situation.

higher cast frequency like old 3.0 tp lets you as sym do more because to can be where you can capitalise more when you want or when the window is there. there are many fights that do last more than 12s in all ranks.

@Poytheon-1466

This is why I think infinite TP is better. You aren’t forced to keep replacing it, and it essentially functions the same.

old 3.0 actually let you “do both”. you wanted to play passive like old 2.0 sym? sure you can do that and pretty much to the same effectiveness as now. you want to actually do more by playing more actively and dynamically? you can when you see fit.

and forcing you to pretty much root yourself to where you put tp down when not being escorted by your team is a lot worse than being frequently given the option to either maintain a tp spot or to fluidly repurpose or reposition tp.

again, the analogy:

@Zephrin-11143

like if you had to choose between 2 stock trading apps where both only allowed you to buy more stock after a cooldown has passed, would you choose

1. where the cooldown starts when you bought your stocks allowing you to sooner and be able to grab more opportunities with other stocks should you predict there to be more opportunities i.e capable of both long game and more short sell strats; or
2. where cooldown starts only after you sold what you bought making only able to invest in 1 thing at a time while also having an extra guaranteed down time where you can’t take up more investment opportunities i.e. long game only?

obvs even with a magic crystal ball with 100% prediction accuracy you’d go with 1. because it has higher potential due to it being able to grab more investment opportunities and adapt to the volatile market better to optimize profits. same principle with tp.