Your post just displays poor team awareness and coordination with infinite TP.
Do you even USE voice chat in your games?
F no. Id rather teargas myself.
Voicechat volume is -permanently- set to zero.
Id rather get infected with corona on purpose then get into whats excused as voice chat in this game. ive had it on, tried what you are suggesting. and i say, -never again-
Infinite TP is a mistake. Nothing will ever change my mind on this.
"LOOK OUT! Your gonna step in … " (Oh wait, she can’t hear me. Can’t say we didn’t try to warn her)
it’s clunky. tp takes a long time to deploy, has a use delay, has a separate input to use, AND has a long cooldown. this rendition of tp sucks, its gimmicky use is basically just for when neither of your supports wanna go lucio.
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The placement mechanic hinders a lot of its potential power.
You can’t place teleports out of LOS of each other.
The max distance between portals is tiny relative to the average control point.
One of the port locations is going to have to be exposed, making it dangerous to use in the first place.
Basically it’s the TF2 engineer’s teleport but dramatically worse in every conceivable way, fay beyond what would be necessary to accommodate the balance differences between these games.
Apples and oranges… terrible comparison.
Not always necessary. If the TP is in a good spot you don’t need to keep replacing it. If you need to replace it, you can. But at least you don’t have to keep replacing it.
I still don’t understand how old TP was better in any way besides a shorter cooldown. I can’t see how it would be better for me to have to leave the frontline where I’m Level 3 beaming the enemy at choke to place another TP for my teammate to get back from spawn faster compared to just having an Infinite TP. If I have to I could just destroy the TP & place it in a new spot if I’m not using it as a spawn taxi…
Imo, Infinite TP is the more flexible version
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People dont like infinite tp?
what?
It’s literally like the fairest ability in the game.
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Because you are using your TP as a spawn taxi. That means the tp is a worse version of rez because it shaves off a maximum of 5.5 seconds of walking distance, can only be used if your teammate dies and respawns and has no use for the majority of it’s infinite duration. The old tp allowed you to set up a quick tp if somebody needed to get from spawn faster but it had many other uses like being Symmetras midfight mobility and flanking tool. You also can’t quickly reposition to high ground. With old sym TP if needed to take high ground quickly the tp was almost always available. Now I have to destroy my old tp if such an use arises, wait out the 12 second cd and then cast deploy it again. Who is going to wait for me to do all this.
Leaving you with a 12 second cd vs a 3 second cd. add 9 extra seconds to any other ability cd of any other of your mains and tell me there isn’t a massive difference.
you’re right, less self healing, no armor, less hp and no passive to mitigate damage. Pretty much she has to set up her tp in one specific location and play around that spot all game to get value. It’s worse. Overwatch is a fast paced game where mobility is king and the chaotic teamfights are a constant back and forth. You can’t expect Sym to set up in one spot and hold that forever.
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in a lot of situations and most of the match time, you do and should be switching places. if you’re trying to maximise the most you can get out of tp, you’d be using it to flank, get better angles for orbs, using it to access enemy territory to claim some of it, etc. i.e. active uses where you’re immediately and definitely getting use/interactions out of it, and not just leaving it passively somewhere for “maybe” use e.g. “oh I’ll put one from frontline to backline in case the team might need an escape”.
this is especially the case when you consider that a tp spot is only “good” depending on the situation e.g. sure tp’ing past choke it good and some maps have spots with good cover for that, but when you’ve past the choke, that spot is no longer good now because neither you nor your team are playing around it anymore i.e. serving no value.
This is why lower cast frequency, and consequently adaptability, is important. Most of the time, you will need to replace tp simply because you need it for a different purpose or that the teams (yours or enemy’s) have moved around shifting around the “good” spots. This is especially the case when shields have been nerfed → teams moving around more often.
enforcing more static play because tp is nerfed to have such a high down time when the game has become much more fast paced (when it was already pretty fast paced already) is a very bad nerf. esp when we consider that old 3.0 tp was shown to be objectively fine for over 2 yrs across various metas.
having to make a decision to keep or move your tp when you often need to move it anyways is a lot better than being forced to not be able to adapt to changes.
like here’s an analogy:
Why are passive tp uses the only ones that come to your mind when there are various others?
like what about a tp behind the enemy to surprise pincer attack or get a quick pick on enemy support esp with lvl3 beam which you’d be able to get in and quickly get out with tp to alternate where needed?
what about a tp to get an angle that’d bypass enemy barriers to pressure from 2 angles that’d make them have a hard choice to pick who to cover from?
what about mind games with using tp as a decoy to trick the enemy into not shooting or not healing for a moment to deal with tp?
what about turret bombing a spot to the side or behind the enemy to zone or again, get a another angle of attack?
all of these are legit more valuable than a spawn tp in that situation and you’d very very likely have a tp cast for that with old 3.0 tp because you can place it more often and you were able to transition between tp uses fluidly from how the cd worked (12s ticking away AS YOU GET VALUE OUT OF IT). unlike current where’s it’s stuck elsewhere or stuck in cd land because you’re now forced to wait out 12s after its destruction (AFTER YOU’RE FINISHED WITH TP).
like I think the sheer point of
the MINIMUM experienced down time with infinite tp is greater than or equal to the MAXIMUM down time of old 3.0 tp (12s)
should be very clear enough of how much worse the cast frequency and the adaptability of infinite tp is compared to old 3.0 one. like did people forget how terrible winston bubble was when it cd worked like infinite tp’s?
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In most instances it needs line of sight, and 30m isn’t really that far. The downtime is very punishing.
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evidently not to sym, the user herself:
hero with low effective range (yes that includes orbs), low sustain and low burst, so she absolutely relies on using tp to get in and out of her effective range yet:
and keep in mind that we had old 3.0 tp for more than 2 yrs across various metas and we objectively observed it not being OP nor oppressive despite the old frequent cast frequency and much lower down time.
PS - To make myself clear. infinite tp “isn’t fair to sym” because we evidently had a much better tp that was decently balanced, and infinite tp nerfed her to often not having her way in and out of engagements because of the massive down time increase.
“Team oriented”
The whole game is team-oritented,but Sym is one of the very few heroes who require a ridiculous amount of teamwork in order to work. And they’re F tier for that reason. Meanwhile,most other characters have some form of self-sufficiency.
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It promotes leaving your tp in one spot for most of the match. Most of the times at spawn. The cooldown punishes you for trying to flank or go for turret bombs. Initial 3.0 tp lasted 10 seconds with the cooldown starting immediately. If your tele survived the 10 seconds you could place a new one in 2 seconds for more options. Now if you try to have your tp up for 10 seconds you still get punished with a 12 second cooldown. This comboed with all of symms other nerfs make her feel really weak right now.
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No one is going to wait if you time it correctly. You can have it as a spawn taxi (thanks to it being infinite) but if no one is dying you can use it just as before, placing it down for your team to change position at any time. Old TP wouldn’t have functioned any differently, once you place it you still had to wait 10 seconds. The only way it’s different is that with old TP after that 10 seconds you had another TP…but I think you overestimate how useful that is. Teamfights usually don’t last that long, 1 TP reposition is usually all you have time for, people usually get picked or the enemy takes point by the time you could cast another.
This is why I think infinite TP is better. You aren’t forced to keep replacing it, and it essentially functions the same. It just lasts forever & has a longer cooldown which really isn’t an issue for the reason I described.
Apples and oranges. TP is a unique ability, and as I said, there’s rarely if ever a need to reposition as often as you seem to think. Also…it wasn’t a 3 second cooldown, lets just be clear.
Still apples and oranges, and definitely not worse. Now I think you might be trolling because Sym is definitely more viable than Bastion, yet you claim she’s worse.
No one is saying Sym should set up in one spot and hold it forever. What I’m saying is that it’s better to have a TP that can last forever if you need it to, or you can use it to reposition when needed vs. being forced to keep replacing your TP. I think it’s much worse that if you want it to be a spawn taxi you have to leave the frontline (which is already down a player) to taxi any teammates back to the fight. I can’t speak for you, but it was never practical for me to use TP as often as you’re saying it could be used. There just aren’t enough opportunities to use TP that often…
That’s the thing…with infinite TP you can do both. You can have it as a spawn taxi that you don’t have to keep replacing, or you can use it to reposition every 12 seconds. With old TP, you’d have to leave the frontline to spawn taxi (extremely more inefficient than how it is now) & it really wasn’t all that more efficient at repositioning because like I said, you only have so many opportunities to use TP. It’s not like you could constantly TP to the enemy backline because if they’re any good they would kill you. Maybe I should clarify, I’m talking about Sym in high ranks. Spamming TP to flank will get you killed. You couldn’t just spam it off cooldown, at least not in my rank.
They aren’t. Like I said, you can use infinite TP almost as efficiently to reposition as old TP because you only have so many opportunities since fights only last so long, and having a TP that doesn’t get destroyed after a few seconds is a huge benefit when it’s in a good spot. If things get hairy you don’t always have time to place the TP, but if it’s already up because it’s infinite it could save your life. I’ve done it countless times.
But…you can do all of these things with infinite TP? The only thing you can’t do is have both a spawn taxi & a reposition TP…but that’s always been the case. The only advantage old TP had was that the cooldown started sooner, but you still had to wait 10 seconds to reposition which is only 2 seconds less than Infinite TP’s cooldown.
It’s a good thing TP is still TP and you can use it exactly the same you just can’t move it as often.
It’s very easy to list the negatives of Infinite TP without mentioning the positives. Fortunately, I’m here to balance the argument. I’ve stated in what ways Infinite TP is better & the only way old TP was better. I’ll say it again. Old TP was only better if you (for whatever reason) insisted on using TP off cooldown every 10 seconds, otherwise it functions essentially the same now and you can use it as an infinite spawn taxi or reposition if it’s in a good spot. I only sometimes use TP as a spawn taxi, the majority of the time it’s used as a fixed repositioning tool that I don’t have to worry about placing if things get crazy. I can focus on dealing damage on the frontline and holding corners/choke knowing I have a safety net behind me.
This is straight up not true ,old sym tp could tp herself and her whole team with a bastion behind a shield every 5 seconds avg , considering that team is listening to sym.
I’ve legit repeatedly posted the math showing what you’re saying here legit isn’t as convenient/fluid/soon as you imply.
the only time you’d get tp back as quickly is if you bugged infinite tp to be instantly destroyed and in that situation you get 0 uptime.
with infinite tp you’re guaranteed 12s of waiting. And that isn’t even including time you’re waiting while tp is up because you left it up for some passive use case like spawn tp too.
with old 3.0 tp, the time you spend waiting is only 12s if it got instantly destroyed. if you used old 3.0 tp for x seconds, you’d have 12-x seconds to wait for your next tp and is bounded below by 2s.
Difference of [12, infinity) vs [2,12] intervals for down time/waiting time is a massive one.
not to mention even if you actually only used old 3.0 tp for 2s, it’d still be up for another 8s while the rest of the 10s cd ticked away which is far better than current where’d you lose out on the 8s uptime and also be getting a tp cast 2s later forcing you to have less in combat options and to have a more passive and binary playstyle due to needing to decide whether to wait out 12s without your ticket into and out of your effective range now or later.
17 Hp and a Dream | Unkillable #1 Symmetra - YouTube : 1st tp to effectively give him access to hard cover and elevation escape without hard disengaging. 2nd tp to escape the 2+ rush on him + take out widow. with new tp, he would’ve hard disengaged when he went off high ground or at most got up and had to rely on teammates to save him from winston or the subsequent rush after. defs no widow pick with new tp.
Flanking With Symmetra | Stevo - YouTube : 1st tp for dueling ball. 2nd tp for bombing enemy backline. he wouldn’t have tp back in time for that with new tp
I Did All I Could.....Lunar Tie - YouTube : 1st tp to get the rein back up on high ground but he noticed too late and it got destroyed (can’t really blame tp for that, it was even placed where he was). 2nd tp for the flank on zen. with new tp he would’ve missed the flank on zen
I Did All I Could.....Lunar Tie - YouTube : 1st tp to escape winston. 2nd tp for the moira pick and double orb on brig. new tp wouldn’t be up in time for the 2nd play.
Stevo Full Holds Blizzard World With All Golds - YouTube : 1st tp for bomb (attempt) and better angle. had 2nd tp available for escaping the rein but messed up cast hence death (can see the animation for tp being quickly brought up but canceled; he would’ve made it too). but with new tp, there wouldn’t have been a chance at all.
Lijiang Tower Tele Strats With Stevo - YouTube : 1st tp for sending turret to allies for peel + angle + rein dodge, 2nd tp for hanzo pick. legit with new tp, he would’ve gotten tp back at the time he got the pick on hanzo with old tp and for all we know hanzo probably would’ve been healed up by then in the new tp situation.
higher cast frequency like old 3.0 tp lets you as sym do more because to can be where you can capitalise more when you want or when the window is there. there are many fights that do last more than 12s in all ranks.
old 3.0 actually let you “do both”. you wanted to play passive like old 2.0 sym? sure you can do that and pretty much to the same effectiveness as now. you want to actually do more by playing more actively and dynamically? you can when you see fit.
and forcing you to pretty much root yourself to where you put tp down when not being escorted by your team is a lot worse than being frequently given the option to either maintain a tp spot or to fluidly repurpose or reposition tp.
again, the analogy:
Infinite TP was a good change but the cooldown nerf killed it.
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And I’ve legit repeatedly stated how infinite TP is better.
Just judging based on that clip…I’m pretty sure he could’ve done the exact same thing with infinite TP. It was almost 12 seconds between when his TP was destroyed to when he deployed the 2nd one to kill Widow.
You can feel free to not like Infinite TP, I think it’s better. Having to leave the frontline to place a TP to taxi a teammate is a pretty good way to ensure losing the fight since you make it a 4v6. With infinite TP, it’s a 5v6 & you can still spawn taxi. If you’re a full 6 and don’t need to spawn taxi, you can very easily place a TP to reposition your team.
Yes, solo Sym flank is nerfed. Infinite TP is still better imo
Because you can do almost every thing with the old TP with shorter down time (unless you want to make it a spawn taxi to save max of 5s).
It would be great if they kept it like this with 12s CD and maybe 6s downtime.
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and a of your points don’t have much ground.
you say you can simply destroy and replace it, but severely down play the fact you’re guaranteed to spend 12s waiting for it to come back before being able to. like legit apply this cd for any other shorter effective ranged hero’s engagement AND disengagement or core ability and tell me if that’s reasonable (and if not, why is sym an exception): e.g. is it better if
- barrier tanks have their barriers have infinite duration but on a 12s cd that starts only after destruction/deactivation/expirey?
- sombra’s invis and translocater have a tied cd of 12s which only starts when both have been used/destroyed/cancelled?
- tracer’s blinks and recall have a tied cd of 12s which only starts when all blinks + recall have been used?
- reaper’s shadow step + wraith have a tied cd of 12s which only starts when both have been used?
etc.
In a fast paced game where situations and conditions change frequently especially now that teams move around more after barrier nerfs, which is better?
- being semi-frequently forced to make a decision to keep or repurpose/reposition tp
- Being forced to be stuck in a static spot or being forced to over commit to a tp placement and unable to adapt quickly nor fluidly with the team’s and/or enemy’s movements/strategies because of a guaranteed 12s waiting/delay time for repurposing/repositioning. Consequently forcing a much more passive play outside of effective range and much higher hero down time.
now replace that with barriers for barrier tanks or a linked engagement + disenagement abilities for shorter ranged dps.
like if neither you nor the enemy team don’t have to move at all, sure infinite tp’s better. But that condition simply doesn’t really happen unless your team is demolishing the enemy already (in which case anything would be “good”). Heck even objectives move.
1st tp placed at 2:08. finished using 1st tp at 2:15. placed 2nd tp at 2:25. 10s difference. With infinite tp, he would’ve had a cast at 2:27 assuming he destroyed ASAP at 2:15, would’ve been active at 2:29 where if we looked at the vid, dva and brig were already around the corner and brig would’ve likely booped you away from tp or could’ve at least told the widow about your tp denying the engagement on widow.
you shouldn’t be looking to spawn tp irrespective of infinite or not when you’re in the front line and there’s plenty more valuable tp uses as I listed out earlier which old 3.0 tp will very more likely let you execute them BECAUSE IT’D BE AVAILABLE TO CAST. unlike current infinite tp where you treat it like it doesn’t exist in this situation as it’s highly likely stuck elsewhere or on cd.
if you left spawn tp up that long, do you not see that it’d be spending much more time doing nothing there than whatever time it saves an ally on the walk back? and that uptime is time away from sym being able to get in and out of effective range for herself paid upfront (i.e. putting yourself at least 0.5 of a hero down by default).
why are you so fixated on spawn tps or other passive tps where most of the time, they’re betting on “might get value (much) later” instead of more dynamic and active uses where “you will get value immediately or very soon after placement”?