Sym and sombra rights (+ genji changes)

General Discussion
1

Genji definitely needed some buffs and I personally think its great that his uno reverse card can now be cancelled manually along with a spread reduction for his primary fire.

That being said, please look into changing his damage because his buffed damage output combined with a lesser spread physically hurts.

Also please look into Sombra and Symmetra. I don’t have much to say about Sombra but I think that anyone can telI that Sombra isn’t in a particularly good place right now. Maybe increasing Sombra’s ammo count to like 75 would be decent since her reload time is like 1.5 seconds (?) and increase her damage slightly?

I’m not sure what changes should be made to her honestly but I do think that she needs some sort of buff, I used to main her but she’s felt really underpowered (imo) ever since.

Aight Blizzard’s favourite character to rework.

Sym’s beam is rlly close range, it’s shorter than Zarya’s actually and yes I know she is a tank but despite that, she literally has 200 more hp with a longer ranged beam.

Sym has little survivability fo play around her short-ranged beam. She honestly just gets mowed down by the time she manages to even ramp up her noodle.

Since she has to get up close and personal, maybe increasing her health to like a total of 250 or 225? This would help a lot since without a pocket she’s really squishy.

Keep in mind most close ranged heroes who aren’t tanks have a higher health pool of 250 hp (Reaper, Baguette, Mei).

Sym’s only form of sustain is her tp if you’d even consider that. Her tp is extremely situational survivability. If her tp is out, its cooldown starts at 12 seconds when the tp is destroyed.

Her tp needs changes. I’d suggest maybe a shorter cool down if she self-cancels it, it doesn’t have to be a major difference, hell 10 seconds or 9 would be great or overall a 10 second cooldown for Sym’s tp instead of 12.

I think a temporary tp would also be a somewhat decent alternate route tbh like the one we had last time? If we do have that though please just give her a tp timer on the screen. Something like the old Sombra translocator.

Also let’s talk about her noodle.
Sym’s orbs are literally better than her beam in most situations unless you can charge your beam off a shield or some large chonk.

I think her 60/120/180 beam damage needs some sort of minor change like 65/125/180 or 65/125/185.

Either that or we do something about “If left uninterrupted on a single target, this will yield to 23 less damage.” I’m not sure whether or not this is true but (Please correct me if I’m wrong) I guess it means that if you track a person with the beam well you get punished for it?

can we get justice for sym and sombra pls

(also can someone please explain why there is a damage difference in turrets (sym torb) between console and pc? I think they’ve mentioned it but I can’t find it anywhere)

sorry if this is a really messy post, it’s my first one

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2

I wonder what would happen if sym’s orbs could peirce, out it make her OP? :thinking:

3

I mean honestly if we have her orbs pierce shields along with her current orb charge rate, it would make her considerably powerful but I don’t think it would be OP

4

I mean there is room to juggle.
Peirce = Orbs a tiny bit slower.
But the devs still don’t really try those small things.

5

It has been confirmed that LoS checks were made for genji mains so double jumping has a chance of breaking it

Maybe fixing the issue of having to hack with a longer cast time than day one sombra :wink:

6

eeeee unfortunately :pensive:

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7

There is an undoubted bias towards those a “high-skill-heroes”
Genji having a “real” counter?
Unimaginable!

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8

Sym needs her thiccbox adjusted.

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9

oh god that problem smh. also sorry but double jumping breaks what exactly?

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10

No. Back then they could. Sure they were slower and did less damage but they also were a joke back then. In current days I would be fine with Sym beeing the ultimate shield counter with her primary and secondary weapon. But I also dont think that this change would help her current situation in the long run.

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11

Giving sombra higher damage would require appropriate nerfs to emp charge, and would only be semi-acceptable if she had to work in a time frame again (no perma invis/translocator) to make her not a nightmare
Also ik hack breaking randomly due to LoS checks is annoying but it goes both ways (I constantly get hacked through shield on brig/rein so they are necessary imo)

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12

Yea true, imo she needs survivability/ A way to get out

For being a close range hero, she sure does lake that

13

I agree that EMP charge needs to be nerfed to somewhat compensate for the damage increase but the buffs to her damage are quite minor imo? maybe like 9.5 or 10 instead of her current 8.

also god damn getting hacked through the shield what kind of apex legends bug is this omg

14

I’d be all for them bringing back piercing orbs on Sym even with her current fire rate and speed. Just make it stop at the first character with the splash dmg so it’s not going through everyone and only shields.

Sombra… I play her a lot and I feel they should give her the old movement speed in stealth back, plus maybe a tiny dmg buff (maybe only on hacked targets and only for Sombra) or more ammo. Also review the los code for hack/ hook. They still break on nothing or fast moving targets even if you track perfectly.

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That would be a pretty good idea tbh and yeah Sombra and Hog needs to be looked at like asap

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Yeah me and my friend tested it and especially with brig there is a threshold a bit before hack completion where even if you shield and look directly at the sombra the hack will go off. Might just be because brigs shield is janky af

17

I still stand that I think her beam should just have a flat damage number, so that we can start focusing on her actual damage output instead of theoretical always-max-charge damage.

Charging the beam damage was a mechanic that was there to balance out her autolock beam. Once the autolock is gone, so should had the charging mechanic.

Also worthy saying that as a support, Sym didn’t had the necessity to confirm kills like DPS characters do. Since she is a DPS, she need the consistent damage output. Eg, Junkrat have his mine to confirm kills while still having inconsistent primary fire.

TP should have 10 seconds cooldown, and it starts the cooldown at placement. However, the way TP leave the scene changes how you can place the next one:

When Sym cancels the TP manually, it adds 2 seconds of cooldown. Even if it was “available”, it can only be placed again after 2 seconds have passed.

If the enemy break the TP, then it adds 6 seconds instead. So if you do a terrible TP that get instabroken, you need to wait 16 seconds to place it again. And if you find a random teleporter somewhere in the field, breaking it still have value, since you can warn your team that red Sym is TP-less for the next seconds.

AKA, reward smart Sym players that manage their TP placement well, and at the same time add a higher risk if they want aggressive TP placement directly on the enemy backline.

Echo beam is also the same range as Zarya’s. I see absolutely no logic reason to not standardize all close range beams to the same 16m.

I also think her turrets need some extra utility, like showing enemies hit by it through wallhacks to her teammates, or locking off mobility skills (like Graviton) if someone is being hit by three turrets at the same time. Some people ask for more damage on turrets, but I honestly would prefer more utility.

Or just give her an extra turret or three and reduce the cooldown to 6 seconds, so that we can craft our turret webs again.

I miss piercing orbs more than anything else from her 2.0 kit. One of my most requested buffs is to allow her to “supercharge” a full-charge orb for an extra second to instead shoot her old slow paced 125 damage piercing orb, consuming 5 extra ammo.

Alternatively, I would be happy with her orb dealing full damage to the first target hit, and still pierce dealing half damage to everyone else. If you have a barrier, the barrier would take the full 140 damage, and everyone else would take 70.

18

LoS checks from hack

They extend or break by no reason :wink:

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19

I can’t much say about Symmetra as DPS… I hope the devs make another rework and put her back as a viable and more defensive support.

But for Sombra… I can say I don’t think she needs more dmg… We have so much dmg powercreep that she felt for someone who haven’t played her before the last buffs or even the rework… but her gun feels now, because of the less spread SOOOOOO MUUUUUCH better. Before they buffed her spread, you sometimes just fired circles arround your target, even when your crosshair was ON POINT, but now, it feels waaaay better and rewarding.
What killed Sombra was the increased casting time for her EMP and the slower hack-animation (I think the nerf to her hack-durration was ok tbh, because it endorse more teamplay/coordination/communication from the player and the team.

I think the best way to buff Sombra would be:

  1. Lower the recovering time from decloaking (means you can attack/hack faster with her)
    OR
  2. Revert the EMP cast-nerf, to what it was before. You where allways able to cancel EMP before it hit (it just required waaay more prediction where she is going to do it, where she throws her locator) or able to counter it (like Transcendence, Nano etc.).
20

It’s a good post and certainly you raise some interesting points. However, I have bad news for you: It’s Symmetra and Sombra. They’re never going to get the Genji treatment. Sombra got triple-nerfed at a time when she was the worst hero in the game literally at every level of play. Symmetra got to viability with the buffs during double shield—not OP, just viable, mind you—and I think the ensuing slapdowns were the fastest balance changes the dev team has ever made.

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