I think that the entire line of discussion comes from a ridiculous idea that a support hero should be a free meal. I don’t think that there should be a situation where Mercy just dies every time Genji looks at her. But if you’re in a situation where you can’t take down a Mercy as Genji, there’s a problem that isn’t related to balance. While it isn’t a free meal, it’s still your fight to lose.
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Who would ever bother playing support if that were the case?
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It’s a straw man. No dps has this idea. Only supports have this idea when they get farmed because of inferior mechanics.
In the case of Mercy vs Genji it is Mercy’s inability to use GA, GA dash, super jump to juke Genji.
Hmmm…
Define straw man.
Well, I think that, and I play tanks. The reason I think this is because we’ve got all of these threads complaining about this very thing. The fight is already stacked in your favor. If you lose, then it is because you were outplayed, not because your hero isn’t potent enough, or that their hero is too much so.
You’re one of the most mobile heroes in the game, and it is that way because it is you job to chase that Mercy down. Time for you to dash, and double jump, and climb the walls to make her life miserable. At minimum, a Mercy on the run is a Mercy that’s not pumping heals into their teammates.
man: “dps should have advantage vs supports.”
Straw man: “so you are saying supports should be free food to dps.”
Maybe you can play some dps (flankers) and find out it’s not as much in dps’ favor as you think. Every support except Zen has a way to fend off dps or get away by themselves, on top of having the natural advantage of team support vs the lack of support from flankers.
What I said was more to the Mercy players who feel they are free food since she is discouraged from combat. They can constantly get away from Genji easily with superior though conditional mobility. Genji who’s unable to kill an evasive Mercy is of course not a balance issue.
If you’re talking about team play then the entire argument is out the window. In that case, not being able to take the Mercy down isn’t a factor of Mercy’s balance, but rather a reflection of the fact that I’m going to turn around and start swatting you the moment I hear or see you harassing our supports. That is, unless you feel that you should be able to take down Reinhardt too.
I don’t think that the argument is made that the support player feels they are free food, but rather that the DPS player thinks that they should be.
Then the proper way you should have said it was “some supports have this idea when they get farmed because of inferior mechanics”.
I mean whenever we see phrase like “free food free kill free meal free snack” it comes from supports who feel they are like that, not dps who think supports should be that, but I guess some tank players see it that way too, as shown above.
To concede to the point you made. By probability, there is a non-zero number of dps who actually do think supports should be free kills, I personally have not seen them since season 1, but they probably exist.
Wrong. It stems from the fact that a support that can efficiently 1v1 a damage dealer, which is either due to damage or self-sustain in their kit which could otherwise be converted to a team utility.
What argument is that?
And that’s the straw man. It’s usually the supports, some of them, who utter this non-sense of being free food because either they feel like free food or they feel that’s what dps players want, but that’s all inside their head.
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The theoretical argument that we’ve been batting around here. You know, the one about DPS efficacy.
idk man, bap zen and lucio all have damn solid damage numbers/breakpoints for a squishy v squishy. While I agree their sustain is a big part, I would not underrate their ability to kill someone pretty quick. Ana also can take someone down fairly quick if she has nade. moira brig and mercy are all a lot slower, but thats ok.
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Regarding dps v support? Im not going to bother talking about it in a 1v1 sense as that actually has 0 meaning. In a 6v6 setting, in the situation of say a flanker (which is what i feel the whole “I should just be farming their supports >:(” logic comes from) no, they shouldnt. forcing a support to use cooldowns because of your attack, and draw attention is still massive value, and even more if you get multiple people to turn.
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The arguments made in this thread sum up why I quit this game. If you are Mcree and you lose to a Lucio once, you got outplayed. If you are consistently getting killed by Lucio across many games, newsflash, you suck at mcree. What do you honestly expect to happen in a 1v1 situation for a support vs dps? Just because of their role they should auto win the 1v1? Get out. Utterly brain dead.
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I wasn’t really arguing about that since it’s always more complicated than 1v1 for dps even though that’s where players like OP want supports to be good at.
I was just pointing out the fallacy in your argument.
I’m not sure that anything I stated was fallacious, or relied upon a logical fallacy, but thank you for sharing your viewpoint.
I know, so you’re probably gonna hold on to that straw man and continue to yelp about supports being free food or variation of that in future threads.
" Supports should be healbots and die of boredom"
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Except most who complain exclusively about supports, typically who main flanker heroes, do.
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